Time for a debate or "Can of Worms" 38's in a 357

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I agree with Cosmoline. The smart thing too do is match the optimal cartridge to the revolver in question. In parctical terms the .357 Magnum in a lightweight snubby will cost you more in critical recovery time from shot-to-shot then the increase in performance is worth. Some folks like to believe that Magnum power will deck the bad guy no matter where the bullet hits. That's not necessarily true, and a well-placed .38 is more likely to do the job then a .357 in a non-vital area. Precise bullet placement will be what wins.

That, and if you don't keep the chambers clean after shooting .38 Specials you risk having extraction problems when you shoot Magnums.

I once ask a representative from one of the larger revolver makers why they chambered the .357 and other Magnums in their lightest guns. He answered, " Because people buy them... they don't have to be practical." :scrutiny:
 
Cosmoline and Old Fluff. Thank you for being much more eloquent that I tried to be. I guess my main emphasis is in matching the right gun, with the right caliber, for the right job.

Also, when I said that the 38 and 357 were both just as effective, I was referring to what they were intended to do. That is, to stop the bad guys. Definitely the 357 is much more powerful.

I do shoot 38's for practice as well as 357's. Once I leave the range however, 357's go back in the gun. That is what I bought the weapon for. For plinking, I've been able to find bulk ammo online which is quite inexpensive. 500 rounds of 125 grain TMJ 356, loose in an ammo can, for $108 + $15 S/h, $12 a box of 50 isn't that bad. I get 38 special for $69 + $15 S/H for 500 also. That's about $8.50 a box of 50.

Many people on this thread have mentioned the obvious of 38's being cheaper to shoot and having the capability of the 357 for hunting. Those weren't the user's I was addressing. Obviously, it people's money and they can buy whatever they want. However, I did hear one response that seemed very legit. They liked the feel of a particular gun and it only came in 357. That is definitely a good reason to get it. Even if they never shoot a 357 round through it. Thanks again for explaining it better than I did. Later... Mike....
 
The .38 Special is a darn fine, useful cartridge. The .357 is a darn fine, useful cartridge. Having a revolver that will shot both is a very good thing!

Now, let's all kiss and make up.
 
Why buy anything less than a .500? You can load it down to popgun levels, or up for grizzlies and anti-tank shooting. No need for lesser calibers.
 
christcorp:

I do shoot 38's for practice as well as 357's. Once I leave the range however, 357's go back in the gun. That is what I bought the weapon for.
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If you carry or use the revolver as "a weapon," it is unwise to reload it with .357 Magnum cartridges after shooting a number of .38 Special's at a range - especially if those .38's are loaded with lead bullets. The fouling in the front of the chamber may make it impossible to quickly extract and eject the Magnum cases in an emergency. In fact one should NEVER reload with Magnum ammunition until the chambers have been completely cleaned. A better alternative would be to reload with a particularly hot .38 Special Plus-P until the chambers could be cleaned.
 
The two biggest reasons for the 357 would be cost and recoil management.
I have been considering a 40oz 6" 357 Tracker as a range toy just for those two reasons.
 
christcorp said:
I find it so ironic that people load 38 specials and/or 38 special +P in their 357 magnum revolver. If they wanted to shoot 38 specials, then why didn't they buy a 38 special.

Don't get me wrong. I understand going to the practice rang and using 38 specials because they are cheaper. I also understand if you just moved into an apartment and you want to lower the dosage down so it doesn't go through the wall to the neighbor.

I'm talking about the people who as a matter of course, load their 357 magnum revolvers at home for for Self Defense with 38 specials. We've heard every reason in the world from; 357 kicks to much. Too much recoil. Too loud. Too much flame. If all of them are legitimate reasons, then why didn't they buy a 38 special instead of a 357 magnum. I could even understand the person with a 6" ruger or S&W that they use for hunting but use 38 specials in at home. But I don't understand the person who buys a 2-3 inch, even possibly 4 inch in 357 magnum and then loads it with 38 specials for practical use. Why didn't they just buy a 38 special to begin with?

Maybe there's some logical reason that I am overlooking. I guess the only reason I could buy, that is still pushing logic, is that I live in an apartment but I will be moving to a large house some day and the 357 magnum was on sale for a great price.

Anyway, not counting the hunters, plinking, practice, and other logical reasons to "SWAP" between 357 mag and 38 specials, why else would people buy a 357 magnum and only shoot 38 specials in them? Especially for Self and home defense. Later... Mike....

(P.S) I have shot a 357 magnum inside buildings before and for the 1 or 2 shots that would consist of a home defense situation, a 357 magnum is no worse than anything else. Granted, I wouldn't sit there and want to shoot a box of 357 ammo, but with the adrenaline pumping and the heart racing, that 1 or 2 shots of 357 isn't that bad.
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Having read none of the replies to this statement above, my first and only thought is that not only is it highly optimistic to even remotely refer to this somewhat spurious issue as a "can of worms," it also gravely failed to make the case why anyone should ever want to limit his otions.

If it was just a troll, which in all likelihood it is, then press on. There are far more interesting subjects on this forum to peruse.

Ed
 
christcorp said:
I find it so ironic that people load 38 specials and/or 38 special +P in their 357 magnum revolver. If they wanted to shoot 38 specials, then why didn't they buy a 38 special.

Don't get me wrong. I understand going to the practice rang and using 38 specials because they are cheaper. I also understand if you just moved into an apartment and you want to lower the dosage down so it doesn't go through the wall to the neighbor.

I'm talking about the people who as a matter of course, load their 357 magnum revolvers at home for for Self Defense with 38 specials. We've heard every reason in the world from; 357 kicks to much. Too much recoil. Too loud. Too much flame. If all of them are legitimate reasons, then why didn't they buy a 38 special instead of a 357 magnum. I could even understand the person with a 6" ruger or S&W that they use for hunting but use 38 specials in at home. But I don't understand the person who buys a 2-3 inch, even possibly 4 inch in 357 magnum and then loads it with 38 specials for practical use. Why didn't they just buy a 38 special to begin with?

Maybe there's some logical reason that I am overlooking. I guess the only reason I could buy, that is still pushing logic, is that I live in an apartment but I will be moving to a large house some day and the 357 magnum was on sale for a great price.

Anyway, not counting the hunters, plinking, practice, and other logical reasons to "SWAP" between 357 mag and 38 specials, why else would people buy a 357 magnum and only shoot 38 specials in them? Especially for Self and home defense. Later... Mike....

(P.S) I have shot a 357 magnum inside buildings before and for the 1 or 2 shots that would consist of a home defense situation, a 357 magnum is no worse than anything else. Granted, I wouldn't sit there and want to shoot a box of 357 ammo, but with the adrenaline pumping and the heart racing, that 1 or 2 shots of 357 isn't that bad.
Click to expand...
Having read none of the replies to this statement above, my first and only thought is that not only is it highly optimistic to even remotely refer to this somewhat spurious issue as a "can of worms," it also gravely failed to make the case why anyone should ever want to limit his otions.

If it was just a troll, which in all likelihood it is, then press on. There are far more interesting subjects on this forum to peruse.

Ed
 
Well... you can .357 frames that hold 7 and even 8 rounds.

There seems to be maybe 4-5 times the choices in .357 than .38, so it makes for better shopping. And then there is the issue of changing tastes. WHat if after firing .38's for years you decide you want to just shoot .357?

And cheap used .357 frames are easy (if not easier to find than .38 only) to find and cheap.
 
well.. you got me there. May have to chalk that one out. But somewhere, some cheap and sick person will buy one handgun for a lifetime of usage and no others.

Admittedly, they need help.
 
Old Fluff; You are 100% correct. I just assumed that most people know not to shoot 357's after having fired 38's. My range has all the cleaning supplies and equipment needed. ALL of the guns I shoot at the range get completely cleaned out prior to putting them back in their case.

I usually shoot about 2 or 3 cylinders full of 357 just to regain the feel. (I shoot what I will use; e.g. 125g golden sabers or hydrashocks. I then spend the rest of the time, with that gun, shooting 38 specials. Usually bulk plinking ammo. I thoroughly clean out the cylinder, barrel, and entire gun prior to putting 357's back in it and holstering it.

Definitely thanks for mentioning that. There are a lot of people that don't understand what happens to the cylinder when you place a 'Shorter" cartridge in it and fire a box of lead through it. Thx... Mike....
 
I had a stainless Old Army, put a rubber pachmayr on it so when I got home, I just took out the cylinder, put it all in the dish washer, and it came out spotless. Wife appreciated me washing the dishes, too. :D But, that one got stolen. I found a blued Old Army at a gun shop, guy was getting out of black powder stuff, and had it listed for $98.95. I whipped out the cash so fast I looked like Jerry Miculek setting a new speed record, but the downer is I actually have to scrub it, no dish washer. But, it's still a lot easier than that danged Hawkin!
 
I have a 4" 686 that is very comfortable with .357s. It's loaded with 38 +P+ for HD and I don't usually carry it outside.

I have a rare 3" 66 that I fell in love with instantly when I saw it on a "pre-owned" shelf and which is in fact my favorite gun. The 3" barrel is perfect for under-arm, IWB or even pocket carry. It's lighter than 686 but shoots .357s without much adverse effects. That one is usually stuffed with .357 for carry

I also have a steel model 60 3" J-frame - 24 ounces, I believe. One can shoot .357s from it without much pain. With only 5 shots available, I would feel strongly inclined to carry it with .357. My wife might feel more confident with 38 +P+ in it - at least for now.

Another is an aluminum/titanium 2" snub J-frame. Shooting .357s with it is quite excruciating. I only have 38 +P+ in it - at least for now.
But if I ever have to grab a round and reload in a hurry, I want to be damn sure that it will chamber. The snub is a BUG and it is a good idea to have the BUG ammo-compatible with the primary one - which may well be one of the bigger revolvers or a Marlin lever.

miko
 
I bought the 357 magnum because of its versatility and my ability to pick and select ammo from two different calibers. I want a gun that I can use, and that my wife can use.

My personal choice for most indoor defense purposes/settings is the .38 special +p FBI load because it is something that is proven to be adequately powered for defense and that isn't over powered for my wife if she has to be the one to use it defensively.

the only thing that would make me choose a 38 special over a 357 magnum in a revolver would be if it is for Concealed carry and the .38 is lighter. Or if there was a substantial price difference. I'm economical, but believe in getting more for my money than just getting the least expensive. I am actually going to probably have buy .38 special for CCW because of the lighter weight consideration and i would rather have something that i am comfortable carrying at all times for a CCW once i get my permit.

Regardless, i am going to use 38 special +p for most applications because i can practice more with the load, i can get faster aimed follow up shots, and because it is an effective stopper.


I have a 357 magnum because if i ever need the round for defense i have that option. And because I dont have to worry about the pressure of +p ammunition damaging my gun. Because my wife can use it and not be intimidated by the recoil.


If the muzzle flash, recoil, and noise of a 357 was not significantly more than a .38 special, then that would be my usual defensive load and 38 special would just be my practice ammo.
 
The .38 Special is a darn fine, useful cartridge. The .357 is a darn fine, useful cartridge. Having a revolver that will shot both is a very good thing!

Now, let's all kiss and make up.
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+1.

...except for the kissin' part. I expect dinner and a movie first ;)

My current carry is a K-Frame, which I load with Black Hills 125gr +P .38s. Very mild and controllable, and most importantly, ACCURATE.

I carry a speedloader with Rem 158gr .357 as a backup. I practice with both, but I'm a tad less accurate with .357s out of the light frame.

Basically, I've got the option of accurate shot-placement followed up with more firepower if the .38s shouldn't do it.

Then again, if 6 .38s can't stop an adversary, it's unlikely anything else (short of something belt-fed) is likely to, either.
 
I understand what you are trying to say
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I don't think you do. You are focused on the material cost difference between .38 Special and .357 Magnum. I am telling you that there is more to the picture.

You have accounted for the cost to produce. Now factor in demand and profit. Suppose I have an ammo factory. Suppose I could produce .38 Special and .357 for the same price, no matter what the volume. 10 cents per round. The demand for .38 is about 200,000 per month. If I charge 30 cents per round, I will make $40,000 profit.

Suppose the market for .357 Magnum is only about 100,000. At that same price, I am making HALF the profit. Why would I make this less profitable product, especially when my resources are finite and there are more profitable uses? Ah, but if I raise the price to 50 cents, I will make the same amount of money.

The difference in costs is probably minimal. The problem is demand and profit.
 
Interesting question in the OP.

My wife thinks 38 Special is a reasonable defensive round. She also prefers a large, heavy revolver for home defense. Ever try to find a 6" N-frame S&W chambered for 38 Special?
 
Now GC70, that is a very good reason. Someone mentioned earlier a similar response. Basically, I really like a particular gun, and it's only available in the 357 mag. Now that make excellent sense. All the stuff about 38's being cheaper, less kick, less flash, easier to shoot, etc... are all good reasons to shoot 38's instead of 357, but they really didn't answer the original question. That was; if the 38 special is what you want and like to shoot, why spend the money on a 357 weapon instead of a 38 special revolver.

The vast majority of people did elude to the "Versatility" factor and the "What if" factor. Those are definitely excellent things to consider. The problem however is that I probably was too vague. I mentioned that my main audience that I am talking about are obviously those that admit that they won't shoot 357 mag. Not only are they spending more than for a 38 revolver, but the versatility factor sort of goes away when we are talking about a 2-3 inch revolver. Other than noise and fire, the 38 special is basically just as effective as the 357. No real gain in putting 357's in it. Especially when you can get a 38 special that is much lighter and easier to carry. It's not like you are going to hunt with a 2-3 inch revolver. So, when people mention, I have the 357 in case I NEED the extra power for self defense; that's stretching for it. A 38 is c;lose to just as effective as a 357 is out of a 2-3 inch revolver. The 4-8 inch barrels start making a major speed and energy bump from 38 to 357.

Anyway, I found it pretty interesting that in a similar, yet opposite, post on why anyone would buy a revolver that was JUST a 38 instead of a 357 that could shoot 38's. A lot of very good answers. Later... Mike..
 
why shoot 38's in a 357?

Some guns are only made in 357 caliber. I have a S&W 66 that I shoot 38's only. It was made to be carried all day and shoot 357's when needed but if you shoot them all the time the gun wears fast. I bought a pair of Ruger Vaquaro's in 357 but will never shoot 357's in them. They aren't offered in 38 that I know of. Different reasons for different guns, don't worry about the small stuff, just enjoy shooting.
 
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