Time for a debate or "Can of Worms" 38's in a 357

[christcorp]

I find it so ironic that people load 38 specials and/or 38 special +P in their 357 magnum revolver. If they wanted to shoot 38 specials, then why didn't they buy a 38 special.

Don't get me wrong. I understand going to the practice rang and using 38 specials because they are cheaper. I also understand if you just moved into an apartment and you want to lower the dosage down so it doesn't go through the wall to the neighbor.

I'm talking about the people who as a matter of course, load their 357 magnum revolvers at home for for Self Defense with 38 specials. We've heard every reason in the world from; 357 kicks to much. Too much recoil. Too loud. Too much flame. If all of them are legitimate reasons, then why didn't they buy a 38 special instead of a 357 magnum. I could even understand the person with a 6" ruger or S&W that they use for hunting but use 38 specials in at home. But I don't understand the person who buys a 2-3 inch, even possibly 4 inch in 357 magnum and then loads it with 38 specials for practical use. Why didn't they just buy a 38 special to begin with?

Maybe there's some logical reason that I am overlooking. I guess the only reason I could buy, that is still pushing logic, is that I live in an apartment but I will be moving to a large house some day and the 357 magnum was on sale for a great price.

Anyway, not counting the hunters, plinking, practice, and other logical reasons to "SWAP" between 357 mag and 38 specials, why else would people buy a 357 magnum and only shoot 38 specials in them? Especially for Self and home defense. Later... Mike....

(P.S) I have shot a 357 magnum inside buildings before and for the 1 or 2 shots that would consist of a home defense situation, a 357 magnum is no worse than anything else. Granted, I wouldn't sit there and want to shoot a box of 357 ammo, but with the adrenaline pumping and the heart racing, that 1 or 2 shots of 357 isn't that bad.

 

[Majic]

Why didn't they just buy a 38 special to begin with?

Just read thru all the threads. Everybody and his brother recommends getting a .357 magnum revolver.

but with the adrenaline pumping and the heart racing, that 1 or 2 shots of 357 isn't that bad.

Adrenaline has nothing to do with the ears. Though you may not notice it then you can still do permanent damage to your ears.

 

[LeonCarr]

One reason people buy the .357 instead of the .38 is because it is very hard to find certain models, for example a 4 inch or 6 inch full underlug barreled revolver in .38 Special. In the .357 they are a dime a dozen.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[pdowg881]

Maybe becuase I can buy one gun and shoot more than one round for it. Not everybody can afford to buy a .38 and .357. I just see it as a great way to be able to shoot two different rounds without the need for two different guns. Even if they never shoot .357 like you speculate, there is always the ability to do so if the need ever arises.

From another perspective: I bought my 870 never having the thought for deer hunting in mind. All I cared about was the smoothbore. Never thought I'd have any desire for a rifle barrel for sabots. But the need did arise, becuase now I do want it to deer hunt. So instead of buying a dedicated slug gun I can get a rifled barrel and shoot both. Oh even better: Since I mostly shoot birdshot through my 870, I'm gonna need a differnt gun for shooting buckshot. Sounds stupid right? It is.


Why .38's in a 357: Two for the price of one, why not?

 

[Risasi]

SP-101, 3". Versatility and availability. Both the gun and the ammo.



[EDIT] Oh yeah, and .38 target ammo is generally cheaper in my neck of the woods...

 

[rdaines]

Useless topic, why would you NOT buy a gun that could shoot either 38s or .357 in favor of one that shot only .38 Specials?

 

[DMZ]

I wanted a small frame CCW revolver.

I wanted a revolver that i could feed a steady diet of .38 +P without wearing it out.

I also wanted the flexibility to develop moderately warm .357 mag loads.

I wanted revolver that I could use a very wide range of loads in from cowboy .38 Spl's to full house .357 mag's.

A small frame .357 filled the bill quite nicely.

 

[bill larry]

Maybe there's some logical reason that I am overlooking.

Yes.

Anyway, not counting the hunters, plinking, practice, and other logical reasons to "SWAP" between 357 mag and 38 specials, why else would people buy a 357 magnum and only shoot 38 specials in them? Especially for Self and home defense.

While I agree that it might (might) be foolish to load your self defense gun with .38's instead of .357's, if its what ya got, then its what ya use.

I hardly ever practice with .357 loads, mainly because I hate resetting my reloading dies. But I do keep them in my gun at home. 38's are cheap to reload and easy to shoot all day. In a life or death situation, I hardly doubt I'll notice a difference.

 

[goings_51]

The .357 is just a few extra bucks and it gives you the option to use either. Options are good. I used to like the idea of .357 until I shot a box or so of Corbon through my snubnose. The first round and the whole firing line went quiet. Everyone else was shooting .45s and that .357 was WAY louder. Forget balistics. I just don't want that in my house at night with no hearing protection, but the option is still there...

 

[JohnBT]

"But I don't understand the person who buys a 2-3 inch, even possibly 4 inch in 357 magnum and then loads it with 38 specials for practical use. Why didn't they just buy a 38 special to begin with?"

Nice rant BTW. Did it take you long to type it? To answer your question, I like .38s, they're controlable. I shoot them in all sorts of revolvers from a small 442 all the way up to a 6" Python. Sometimes I even shoot .357s. Sometimes I load the 442 with wadcutters. Sorry you don't understand versatility.

John

 

[glockman19]

I wanted a small frame CCW revolver.
I wanted a revolver that i could feed a steady diet of .38 +P without wearing it out.
I also wanted the flexibility to develop moderately warm .357 mag loads.
I wanted revolver that I could use a very wide range of loads in from cowboy .38 Spl's to full house .357 mag's.
A small frame .357 filled the bill quite nicely.

Well said

 

[Tom Servo]

I've got a K-Frame that I shoot and carry .38spl in. Out of a 4" barrel, the Black Hills 125gr is a heck of a round, rivalling 9mm hollowpoints.

I have the option of shooting .357 through it if necessary, and that's what I have as a backup in my speedloader.

So, if it can handle the hot stuff, why .38? First off, I'm as accurate in DA with this gun as I am with an SA automatic, and almost as fast. Second, I value my hearing too much to risk discharging .357 without hearing protection. Third, by backup is also a .38 J-Frame, so the ammo's the same.

If all else fails, they're both backups for the 1894 in .357

 

[Majic]

Useless topic, why would you NOT buy a gun that could shoot either 38s or .357 in favor of one that shot only .38 Specials?

Because you have no intention of shooting the .357 magnum cartridge.

 

[pdowg881]

Someday the need or intention may arise. You can't just assume you will never shoot the .357mag. I bet almost everyone here is shooting something did didn't plan to shoot a few years back.

 

[DAdams]

Get the Lock

Sorry to say it (no I'm not) but this thread is a waste of bandwidth.

 

[christcorp]

Well, that's why I titled the thread "Can of Worms". Pretty much everyone responded with the word "OPTION". There's no debate about 38's being cheaper for practice, plinking, etc... That's not what I'm debating. Nor those who would use the dual purpose for hunting.

I'm talking about a 2-3 inch revolver that pretty much only has two purposes in life. To shoot people and to Practice to shoot people. Yes, it's great to have options. I think however Majic hit on the point I was making. Many people buy a 2-3 inch 357 mag with never the intent of shooting 357 mags in them. Yes, there is the option, but it is unlikely.

Obviously, a 38 special, especially +P, is quite affective as an SD or HD weapon. Yet, many buy a 357 mag with never an intent of ever really shooting 357's in them. They may have shot a couple of rounds at the range during practice or plinking, but it is very unlikely that they will ever use the weapon as a 357 magnum.

I didn't hear anyone mention it, but I had been theorizing, that a lot has to do with "Image". For many people, especially those that don't do a lot of shooting, they are sold on the idea that the 357 magnum is the caliber that 'You've Got To Have" for self defense. Then they are sold on the fact that you can shoot 38 specials in it for practice for a much cheaper price. The truth is, the 357 magnum has established a reputation as the ultimate pistol for self defense. Unless you're a 250lb man, then of course there's the 44 mag. Unfortunately, many people but the 357 mag only to find out that it's a lot more gun then they want or need.

Anyway, I believe that there are a lot of people who buy 357 magnum revolvers and will never shoot that ammo. They will shoot 38's in it for self defense. For a carry gun, I either have a 9mm, 38 +p, or 45acp. Only because of the compactness of the weapon. I've shot guns my whole life and I don't find the 357 to be to hard to handle. Just impractical some times. Especially in a 2 inch revolver. Anyway, seems like a lot of good opinions. Later... Mike...

P.S. No thread is a waste of bandwidth if you respond to it. If you pass by it and don't respond, then that is also sending a message. To respond, only adds to the bandwidth. No one said you had to respond.

 

[pdowg881]

Put a fork in it. This one's done.

 

[Dithsoer]

I just don't understand why people who never intend to go to a race track buy an automobile capable of going over 100 miles per hour, or why people who live in the suburbs and never even see mountains buy a huge S.U.V. capable of going cross country on the moon.

 

[Hawk]

I didn't hear anyone mention it, but I had been theorizing, that a lot has to do with "Image".

Too complicated. There's a simpler explanation.

At least around here the dealers have chosen for you. Ruger catalogs .38 in both their revolvers. Try to find one, though. If I was buying stock I'd do the same. The 357 works for .38. The reverse isn't true.

I'll likely go to my grave before I hear someone proclaim to a dealer that they'd like to special order an SP-101 in .38 special, pay extra for shipping a single, wait until it shows up all so they can eliminate the option of ever using .357.

That sort of person would wander into a Chevy dealership and special order a Corvette that would run only on 87 octane and would, in fact, explode if they could somehow jam 93 octane into it.

 

[Bezoar]

this is easy easy easy

everybody says get a 357. so the first time shooter does, goes to range and experiences unpleasent things when launching full house loads of 357. then finds a box of 38special and realizes

38 is easy handling, and is just as accurate.

and also that just having a 357 magnumlabel on a gun they use at the range can keep the range ninjas away *whos gonna knock the tacticol nature of a 686 chambered in 357?

 

[Gary A]

To wonder why other people make the choices they do is fruitless and futile. Do whatever works for you and don't lose sleep over it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted By: christcorp
I'm talking about a 2-3 inch revolver that pretty much only has two purposes in life. To shoot people and to Practice to shoot people.

I truly hope you DO NOT have a permit to carry a handgun because that way of thinking is way off and totally wrong. I agree there are two purposes for having the gun you are talking about but those two reasons are:
1.) To protect myself and my family.
2.) To stop an attack.

You need an attitude correction sir. It's people like you that give shooters a bad name.

BTW, why the hell do you care what other people buy?

 

[Fast Frank]

I can see how you would wonder why people would buy a .357 with no intention of ever firing anything but .38spl out of it. Inquiring minds and all that.

But the other question deserves equal treatment-

Why not?

I can't think of a single reason why shooting .38spl out of a .357 mag pistol would be considered a negative.

I used to have a Dan Wesson model 15V that was a real shooter with light loaded .38s. How is that a bad thing?

 

[christcorp]

Hawk, I definitely agree that the manufactures have lead many people to the 357 because of it's dual capabilities. But there are plenty of new revolvers in 38 only. S&W makes "J" and "K" models that are only 38. And those are new. Used are even more available.

Personally, I think Bezoar is pretty accurate is why. For the shopper who isn't influenced so much by image and hype, used 38's revolvers can be bought for a lot less than the 357 mag. At least at most of the gun shows and shops I have visited. That is definitely something to consider when recommending a weapon to someone.

ArchAngelCD; Please don't go "Moral" on me. You have no idea who I am, my background, or my motives for asking or starting such a thread. And you can use different definitions all you want, but it's simply semantics. You can claim high ground by saying "To Protect myself and my Family" and "To stop an attack" if you like. But unless you are including you and your family being attacked by a pack of wolves, then the purpose is to shoot people. And the reason you practice is so that you can accurately do it. I don't give shooters a bad name, nor do I need to have an attitude correction. If it makes you feel better disassociating attackers as being "People", then go for it.

I have heard a lot of emotion in this thread. Quite understandable. Wasn't my intention to ruffle feathers on debating a person's "Right" to own a 357 magnum even though they would probably never shoot that cartridge. People obviously have the right to own any gun or caliber they want. Since the development of the 357 mag, there have come many uses for it. For many however, they have eliminated self defense as one of the uses. That is the intriguing part of all of this. Why have a 357 if you aren't going to ever use it? Yes, the option of "Some Day I may have a use" is definitely plausible. But I don't think that falls into the majority of users.

I personally prefer the 357 magnum. I like the cartridge and what it can do. I practice with 38's because their cheaper, but I keep it loaded with 357 when not practicing or plinking. For those friends who are looking for a small "J" frame style weapon to carry or have nearby, I usually suggest a 38 special that can handle +P. I don't recommend a 357 unless the person is someone who can comfortably shoot a 357 mag and will use that. They can get a good 38 special for a lot less than a 357. Basically because of the image and supply and demand.

As for the effectiveness of both calibers being used to shoot someone; (Or to be used in self defense; for the politically correct readers), both the 38 and 357 are equally effective. So, in reality, finding the additional uses for the 357 (In a 2-4 inch revolver, was the main objective. I love the fact that I can practice and plink shooting cheaper 38 specials. I personally use the 357 as a 357 mag. I also use my 44 mag as such. 44 specials are only for practice. Yet, there are plenty of 44 special revolvers out there also. Anyway, sorry to have ruffled feathers by making some feel that I was somehow implying that a person shouldn't have the right to have a 357 mag if they weren't going to use it. Later... Mike....

 

[Gtscotty]

wait...

I truly hope you DO NOT have a permit to carry a handgun because that way of thinking is way off and totally wrong. I agree there are two purposes for having the gun you are talking about but those two reasons are:
1.) To protect myself and my family.
2.) To stop an attack.

You need an attitude correction sir. It's people like you that give shooters a bad name.

So, when you go to the range to practice your defensive handgun usage, what exactly do you do. Most of the folks I know tend to shoot at targets when practicing with a handgun. Many of them even shoot at silhouette targets shaped somewhat like...people.... could it be that this is in fact to replicate the experience of shooting at people? Could it be, that the only thing a handgun is useful for in a situation where you (or a family member) is threatened by an assailant is to shoot said assailant. The man was essentially correct in his assertion that a handgun is used for two things, shooting people and practicing shooting people (for short barrel .38s anyway).

1.) To protect myself and my family.
2.) To stop an attack.

These are things you might use the handgun to accomplish, but when it gets right down to it, that kind of handgun is predominately used for shooting people and there is no reason to lash out at the guy for stating as much.