38 super 1911 conversion?

[The Trinity Kid]

Evening all.

I wasn't sure where to put this, and i couldn't find an answer in any existing threads, so moderators, I won't get my feelings hurt if you move it.

Anyway, I have a RIA GI -MS 1911. I've had nothing but problems with the thing. First, it refused to hold the magazine. I fixed that with a 1/2 turn on the mag release screw. Then, it's had issues extracting. That is recurring, and messing with the extractor hasn't helped. Once, it didn't quite get one case out, but instead of just a normal doublefeed, it flipped the empty backwards and back into the chamber, requiring a cleaning rod and a hammer to get it out. The finally, the recoil spring retainer has an insatiable urge to turn sideways inside the slide, on time requiring machining by gunsmith to resolve. It also has issues with feeding, though that was mostly fixed by a Wilson Combat mag.

So here's where the conversion-ing comes in. I was thinking of just buying a whole new slide/barrel/recoilspring/guide rod,, and putting that on the frame. That would hopefully eliminate the extraction issue, the weird bushingless field stripping, and the squirrelly spring retainer. Is this doable, or is the MS frame different from regular GI 1911s?

Now comes part 2 of the question. Naturally, this gun is a 45, and so would the new "upper assembly", for lack of a better term. But, say I also wanted to be able to shoot 38 super. Would it be as simple as a barrel and recoil spring swap? Or are 38 barrels a different outside diameter than the 45?

--TK

 

[judgedelta]

I have read that .45 slides will only do .40 (S & W - 10mm) and that 9mm and .38 super are interchangeable. I'm no 'smith, for what that's worth.

 

[BBBBill]

First, the gun should be warrantied by RI/ARMSCOR. They have a reputation for doing good warranty service to correct any and all issues up to and including replacing the gun if it is not reparable. Their service center in in Parumph, NV.
Second, it is not a mag release screw. It is a mag release retainer. No threads on that thing at all.
Third, the whole top half is different. The breach face in a 45 slide is too wide for a 38S/9mm case. They will not be retained by the extractor and extraction will be a constant problem.
New top half (barrel/slide/extractor/recoil spring/firing pin/firing pin spring). Also, on Colt spec guns (most of the clones are fairly close on this) the ejector is different, too, for the full sized 5" barreled guns. So you would need to either swap ejectors when changing top halves or recut the 45 slide for a Commander width ejector (same for all calibers) and install same.

 

[bannockburn]

With a .45 1911 you could do a .38/45 Clerke, or a .400 Corbon conversion or add a .22LR assembly. Certain design factors as BBBBill pointed out don't allow for the .38 Super to work with a .45 ACP slide or frame. Easiest conversion to do if you already have a .38 Super is to get a 9mm. barrel assembly and magazine.

 

[jmorris]

Whenever I am trying to diagnose a problem I always try to change one thing at a time to find a cure. At least I learn the most that way.

What you are suggesting is kind of a clean sheet.

38 super would be a different slide (SVI has slides that have different, interchangeable breech faces) and extractor along with a different ejector (along with different magazines).

Anyone of them might fix the problem you are currently having.

 

[72guns92]

The MS frame is different

 

[BBBBill]

MS = Mil Spec usually. I don't own an RI/ARMSCOR so, as far as I know, it might mean mid sized. If that's the case, it would approximate the Colt Commander sized gun (4-1/4" barrel with full length grip). Rules for swapping slides/calibers still apply.

However, the warranty route is still best as I originally suggested.

 

[Kp321]

+1 on frame differences. The feed ramp is different angles and widths for different calibers. Unless a ramped barrel is used, a 9mm or 38 Super will not feed reliably in a 45 frame.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

First, it refused to hold the magazine. I fixed that with a 1/2 turn on the mag release screw.

Wait.. hang on... Back up. What mag release screw? It's a slotted lock. Turning it causes the spring to pop out.

The finally, the recoil spring retainer has an insatiable urge to turn sideways inside the slide, on time requiring machining by gunsmith to resolve

The guide rod or plug? I don't see how either of those could possibly try to turn sideways.

Sorry, I know it's derailing... but these some 1911 gunsmithing stuff that doesn't line up ehre.

 

[Pete D.]

IIRC - six time national pistol champion Bill Blankenship used a 1911 modfied to shoot .38 Super; it was one of the three firearms that he used to set his longstanding national record of 2673/2700 (since surpassed but it took a while).

 

[rbernie]

So here's where the conversion-ing comes in. I was thinking of just buying a whole new slide/barrel/recoilspring/guide rod,, and putting that on the frame. That would hopefully eliminate the extraction issue, the weird bushingless field stripping, and the squirrelly spring retainer. Is this doable, or is the MS frame different from regular GI 1911s?

Assuming that MS == midsize with a 4" barrel (which is what I assume from your bushingless slide description), the frame is different than full size and is similar to (but potentially not identical to) a Commander size frame. If the gun is a full size 5" barrel GI model, then the frame is the same as any other 5" 1911 pattern pistol.

Now comes part 2 of the question. Naturally, this gun is a 45, and so would the new "upper assembly", for lack of a better term. But, say I also wanted to be able to shoot 38 super. Would it be as simple as a barrel and recoil spring swap? Or are 38 barrels a different outside diameter than the 45?

The breech face of a 38 Super gun's slide is different than the breech face for a 45ACP. You can convert a RIA 9mm to 38 Super pretty easily, but not the 45ACP version.

 

[BBBBill]

IIRC - six time national pistol champion Bill Blankenship used a 1911 modfied to shoot .38 Super...

More likely a factory built 38 Super (they were available in the 20s/30s) converted to 38 Special Wadcutter (which also became a limited factory offering based on the Gold Cup) converted by one of the smiths of that era (Clark, Dinan, Shockey, Chow, etc). I saw Blankenship shoot in a private demonstration when he was a Colt factory rep. Quite the gunny.

 

[The Trinity Kid]

Responding to the mag release thing, I don't know what it is, but it was loose, and tightening it fixed the problem. There is a picture attached.

Now, about the recoil spring retainer. In this gun, it wiggles all over the place. It's not like a regular barrel bushing. It is held in place simply by spring tension, so removing the tension makes issues.

Now for the warrenty. The warrenty card was filled out, and on the table. Then, when I got home, it was not. Hence, no warranty.

Also, MS stands for mid size. Basically, it's a commander.

--TK

 

[rcmodel]

The mag release is held in place on any 1911 by a quarter-turn of the mag catch lock turning out of hiding inside the mag release, and locking into a recess inside the frame.

Although it is slotted, it is not a screw, and you can't tighten it.

It is either turned counter-clockwise 1/4 turn and inside the mag release button so you can take it out?

Or it is turned 1/4 turn clockwise to hold the mag release in place in the frame.


Note: In your photo, the mag release lock slot is pointed foreword.

That is the release position to take the mag catch out of the frame.

The slot should be vertical, in line with the front edge of the grip panel when the mag catch is properly locked in place in the frame.

In the position yours is in now, it's about to fly out and hit you in the face!!

To properly lock the mag release:
* Push it in hard, all the way to the right.
* Then turn the lock clockwise until the slot is vertical with the grip panel edge.


rc