.380 quandary

[fireman5069]

I have seen posts on this site in regards to problems with a lot of the "latest and greatest" pocket .380's. Seems the market is flooded with these little pistols now in light of concealed carry laws. My question is... what were people shooting in .380 just a few years ago that were very reliable. I know that most manufacturers will repair/replace their product if found defective but even the major players, Ruger, S&W, Taurus,etc. have had their respective recalls. Tell me what brands/models of .380 that has proven reliable for you over the years.

 

[Zundfolge]

Sig P230 or P232 ... probably the most reliable .380 ever made.

 

[AJChenMPH]

It's not exactly a pocket pistol, but my Browning BDA-380 has been very reliable (I've had one FTF in about 300 rounds), and I've read the Beretta 84/85 are also great pistols (the BDA-380 is actually the Browning labeled version of the 84).

 

[whatever]

Kel Tec. As ugly as they are, as unpleasant as they are to shoot, mine ALWAYS goes bang.

 

[TIMC]

I own 2 LCP's and 1 Sig P-232. The Sig is by far my favorite shooter but the LCP is a reliable easy to hide pocket pistol.

 

[fireman5069]

So far my theory is correct. I've seen three brands already listed that I anticipated being mentioned. Keep 'em coming!

 

[glockman19]

I have a Bersa Thunder .380. Looks like a Walther and shoots like a Glock.

 

[bannockburn]

I have an older Colt Mustang. It has always been 100% reliable for me and is one of the softest shooting .380's I have ever tried.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well "years ago" the bullet designs on hollow points for the .380 really didn't give good, reliable expansion. I saw many many xrays of dudes in the illicit pharmaceutical trade that had been shot with .380 HP's and few of the slugs opened up, regardless of range, striking bone, or the clothing of the victim. BUT back then different HP's functioned differently in different guns..., some would jam and some wouldn't. Ball didn't jam ever in my Walther PPK, and since HP's wouldn't usually mushroom, I figured it was better to shoot than to have to clear a jam in the pistol, so I shot ball.

I believe even with more recent bullet designs, you still need a pretty fast round to get good expansion, and if you are using one of the very smallest .380's you may not be getting that MV, so perhaps you are wasting your money on anything other than FMJ ammo? Perhaps it would be better to see if your particular .380 load expands well from your gun, then worry about function, for if you can't find a good expanding HP for your .380 then ball is the better option than a jam, and then functionality is probably a moot question, no?

LD

 

[usp9]

Tell me what brands/models of .380 that has proven reliable for you over the years.

I carried three .380s over the years; a Astra Constable, Sig P232, and a Beretta 84. All three were trouble free, but none really a pocket gun. I carried on my ankle or on my belt. I never carried it but another .380 that proved reliable and is certainly carry-worthy is the Sphinx AT-380.

 

[GunTech]

I no longer see the appeal of a mid sized 380 (PPK, P230) when you can get a 9mm of 40 in the same size. For something smaller, I like the Mustang or Sig 238. The micro guns like the Ruger, while concealable, are just not pleasant to shoot but if concealability is your prime requirement they beat the 32 and 25 pistols they replaced.

 

[FLAvalanche]

Tell me what brands/models of .380 that has proven reliable for you over the years.

I'm happy with, and often carry my Bersa .380. Love it.

I also have a Taurus PT138. It will eat anything and never jams. I have serious problems with my PT138 that nobody at Taurus seems to have the capability to fix. That being said the high capacity and second stirke capability could make this a decent pistol.

 

[dogtown tom]

fireman5069 I have seen posts on this site in regards to problems with a lot of the "latest and greatest" pocket .380's. Seems the market is flooded with these little pistols now in light of concealed carry laws. My question is... what were people shooting in .380 just a few years ago that were very reliable. I know that most manufacturers will repair/replace their product if found defective but even the major players, Ruger, S&W, Taurus,etc. have had their respective recalls. Tell me what brands/models of .380 that has proven reliable for you over the years.

The "problems" you read about are due to a couple of factors:
1. Manufacturers are in a rush to get product in the dealers hands before someone else does. Marketing and sales are prioritized, design and function are not. Quality control is affected by the pricepoint.
2. SIZE- the current crop of .380 are overwhelmingly tiny. The rise in the number of concealed handgun licensees + the (now expired) AWB led to a market for small handguns. Rather than large capacity mags, the concealed carrier wanted something small enough to hide easily.
3. WHINERS- thirty years ago if your gun didn't work as you thought it should you took it back to the store. Today you do that and then go post on the internet what a peice o' junk the GloSigTec 2000 is. Yours may have been one of 2,000 that was returned but forum readers don't know that. Irate customers complain often and repeatedly, happy customers don't go on them innnernets to find others with problems.

I've owned a number of .380's since I was fifteen and bought my first .380 pistol (a Remington 51)

I still own and shoot:
Remington Model 51 (still my favorite)
Colt Series '80 Government Model
Browning BDA
Star Super SM
FN Model 1922
FN/Browning Model 1910/55
to name a few.....

All those are fairly large compared to my current .380 carry gun, a Kahr P380.
I wouldn't hesitate to take any of the above on a walk around town- but the Kahr is lighter, smaller and just as effective. My Kahr PM9 is smaller and lighter than any of the .380's above.

Is the tradeoff between size worth it? Yes, if the micro gun works, it works. Those other .380 designs were great, but larger and heavier- some required a belt holster.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Well, since you asked. It's no secret that I'm a fan of Daewoo firearms. The Daewoo DH380 whipped the Bersa Thunder and the CZ 83 in GUN TESTS back in Feb. 1997.
I hope you were including used pistols as well. Like all handguns, each .380 has their faults....

 

[ambidextrous1]

It's a bit large & heavy, but my Russian-made Makarov has been very reliable with everything I've fired in it; just be sure you have big pockets.

The HK 4, with .380 barrel installed, is a bit smaller & lighter, but still quite reliable. Most of these have become safe queens, though, because of their scarcity and value.

The old Colt Mustang is a smooth operator, but a bit pricey, and parts are hard to find. The Mustang-based Sig P238 will be a winner, once Sig gets the QC issues resloved. It's worth noting that these two have a SAO trigger - rare in .380 pistols.

 

[MattTheHat]

Let's see.

A couple of Colt Government .380s, a Colt Mustang II Plus, three Colt M1908, Taurus PT58HC, Mauser HSC Super, Sig P232, Ruger LCP, Diamondback DB .380, Baikal IJ-70-17A, Star SA Super .380, and probably a couple of others I've forgotten. All seemed reasonably accurate and reliable. I guess I kind of like .380 autos.

I've also shot the Browning BDA and Beretta 85. Both were perfectly reliable.

-Matt

 

[Paul7]

My Kel-tec has been perfect, unlike an LCP I used to own.

 

[PingTheServer]

I know someone very fond of their beretta tomcat.

 

[smallbore]

Sig P232 in stainless

 

[ruger1228]

I have both the Browning BDA and the Beretta 84FS. Both have functioned flawlessly and are unbelievable accurate.

 

[welldoya]

The LCP had some problems when it first came out but the latter ones have been very reliable. I've had no problems with mine. (prefix 373)

 

[Furncliff]

CZ83 is .380
CZ82 is 9mm Makarov

The base CZ82 was made for European police and military use. It gained a reputation for durability and reliability. It is Mil-surp now and can be had for ~200$. Mine has a new Duracoat paint job, looks nice, feels good in the hand and is accurate. It's a bit heavy ~28oz. but mine is a range gun and the weight is plus for me. Carries 12 in the magazine.

The CZ 83 is the same gun, but is currently being manufactured... price is about $400. Most of the parts (maybe all) are interchangeable but it comes in .380 and .32acp.

Because all the parts are available from CZUSA, buying a surplus gun for not much $ takes most of the risk out of buying one of these. And you will be pleasantly surprised at how good the trigger is.

 

[kokapelli]

My stable of tru pocket pistols.
All of these are 100%. The Sig P238 leaves all of them behind when it comes accuracy and comfort with the exception of the PM9 which I don't carry too often because it's a little large for my pocket.

 

[Clark]

The kel-tec 380 weighs 10 ounces loaded and clips into my shirt pocket like a ball point pen.

I can't feel that it is there. The other shirt pocket has a cell phone. I can't feel that either.


But get much more than 10 ounces and I can feel the pistol bouncing when I walk.

The 380 with handloads will do 1100 fps 90 gr Gold Dot, which is good enough for carry in low crime neighborhoods.

 

[TexasBill]

I have owned several pre-S&W Walther .380s (PP, PPK and PPK/S) and never had any trouble with them. There was that one glitch with the Smith version, but it seems to have been handled well and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Walther PPK.

I did buy a Walther/Umarex PK380 and have been very happy with it. Yes, the coating did get scraped off the barrel, but it hasn't affected the functioning of the pistol, which has been flawless. It's easy to handle, inexpensive and has minimal recoil.

My favorite .380s are the Beretta 84FS Cheetah and Browning BDA .380. I have the Beretta and my wife has the Browning. They're comparatively large and heavy with their 13-round magazines loaded with Remington Golden Sabers, but they are easy to shoot and easy to carry in a belt or shoulder holster.

The SIG P232 is, by all accounts, a very good pistol. I am not so impressed by the P238; it's a cute little gun but cocked 'n locked in a pocket just doesn't strike me as a good idea.

I've got no use for the LCP; if I need a small gun I can drop in a pocket, I can use the Walther or my S&W M637 Airweight. But that's just me - lots of people really like the LCP.