Why buy a 380?
- Thread starter Redcoat3340
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Because it's a good cartridge and there are some really nice guns chambered for it.
When used within its design envelope, it can be quite effective. It's essentially a "belly gun"; I carry mine when it's the best choice for the situation at hand which is more often that some might think.
When used within its design envelope, it can be quite effective. It's essentially a "belly gun"; I carry mine when it's the best choice for the situation at hand which is more often that some might think.
R.W.Dale
Member
Every single one of the micro 380's would be a better defense gun were it chambered for the cartridge designed from the get go for such applications 32acp
You get more ammo, the possibility of an aimed follow up due to reduced recoil and with FMJ you should be carrying either case rim lock is a non issue and performance is virtually identical.
The original locked breach poly pistol got it right. The p32 making 380 a superfluous in between step that excels at making tiny pocket guns kick ALMOST as hard as tiny pocket 9mm's
You get more ammo, the possibility of an aimed follow up due to reduced recoil and with FMJ you should be carrying either case rim lock is a non issue and performance is virtually identical.
The original locked breach poly pistol got it right. The p32 making 380 a superfluous in between step that excels at making tiny pocket guns kick ALMOST as hard as tiny pocket 9mm's
R.W.Dale
Member
It has the same sights as the 380 version. The guns are so small there's really nowhere to put a set of three dot sights without making the dots microscopic
Mine wears an armalaser
Deaf Smith
Member
Kill is not the same as stop. A .22 can kill alot of critters but not stop them from finishing their deeds.
Shot placement? With a mousegun? Good luck with that.
Oh, and I have a P32, use it as backup, but I don't kid myself about its abilities.
Deaf
AK103K
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I agree, although I prefer mine in SS. I didnt have good luck with my P32.
At the distances they are likely to be used, theres really no need or point. At those distances, looking for sights would actually be a distraction.
Ive had quite a few of the smaller guns over the years, and once I found my Seecamps, they became the standard all the others had to meet/beat. So far, I have yet to find any that have.
That said, I rarely ever carry the Seecamps anymore, as a Glock 26 has pretty much replaced them.
JR47
Member
I have a P32 as well. I really cannot feel much difference between it and a .380 P3AT, which I also own, as far as recoil goes. I like the .32 ACP, and have several. However, the ammo manufacturers have been a little slow putting the latest generation of JHP research into place in the .32 ACP.
.380 ACP was never meant to be a long-range cartridge. The original guns were their days version of "belly guns".
Today's .380 ACP pistols tend to be smaller, more easily concealed, and lack the recoil of most 9mm versions of the same gun. While all of us think of ourselves as masters of recoil, the real truth is that we aren't. Myself included.
Take a look at what we take to the range for an afternoon's fun. It won't be sub-compact 9s, 40s, or 45s. Nor will it be J-frame .357 guns. Things like that are far more telling than our rationalizations.
I'm getting older, as well, almost into my 7th decade. To me, the "fun" of an afternoon with full-power .44 Magnums, even in a Red Hawk, passed a decade or more ago. The same with the idea of "saving money" by shooting a few hundred 9x19 rounds.
The .380 ACP fits better into the majority of CCW carriers lives. After all, if you hit what you shoot at, you're golden. Besides, the vast majority of us will never fire a shot in anger, no matter what we carry. Sometimes we tend to game everything until we need an M2HB to get out of the scenarios we end up in. I'll never be headed to Afghanistan any more. I live in an area that is low-crime, and the crime we have is more in unoccupied structures. I feel safe enough that I cancelled my order for the up-armored HMMV, and my hard-plate Body Armor.
.380 ACP was never meant to be a long-range cartridge. The original guns were their days version of "belly guns".
Today's .380 ACP pistols tend to be smaller, more easily concealed, and lack the recoil of most 9mm versions of the same gun. While all of us think of ourselves as masters of recoil, the real truth is that we aren't. Myself included.
Take a look at what we take to the range for an afternoon's fun. It won't be sub-compact 9s, 40s, or 45s. Nor will it be J-frame .357 guns. Things like that are far more telling than our rationalizations.
I'm getting older, as well, almost into my 7th decade. To me, the "fun" of an afternoon with full-power .44 Magnums, even in a Red Hawk, passed a decade or more ago. The same with the idea of "saving money" by shooting a few hundred 9x19 rounds.
The .380 ACP fits better into the majority of CCW carriers lives. After all, if you hit what you shoot at, you're golden. Besides, the vast majority of us will never fire a shot in anger, no matter what we carry. Sometimes we tend to game everything until we need an M2HB to get out of the scenarios we end up in. I'll never be headed to Afghanistan any more. I live in an area that is low-crime, and the crime we have is more in unoccupied structures. I feel safe enough that I cancelled my order for the up-armored HMMV, and my hard-plate Body Armor.
R.W.Dale
Member
What's the fmj penetration in gel?
Don't bring hp into the mix as that sets both rounds up for failure
R.W.Dale
Member
No 9mm will ever be as small and light as my Kel-Tec P3AT. I have carried it in a shirt pocket.
And no p38t will be as shootable as a p32
I think it's pretty easy to assume that if you're looking at a .380, you're looking at something where concealment is a factor. So there are two comparisons to be made: 9mm vs. .380, and .38 snub vs. .380.
Now, we're not comparing a full-size Beretta or Glock against a .380, but probably more along the lines of a Ruger LC9 vs. Ruger LCP or a Sig 238 vs. 938. While some companies make guns that are fairly similar in size (the Sigs are same width and height, with a 0.4" difference in length), others are rather different (LC9 is 0.8" longer, 0.9" taller, and 0.1" wider than the LCP...although it does carry an extra round).
So, some companies have the .380 as a lower-recoil option (the 9mm can be hard for recoil sensitive folks to handle in a pocket pistol size), while other companies use the .380 because it can be had in a significantly smaller package. I don't think you can make a 9mm smaller than my phone.
That leads us to .380 vs. .38. I have both a Ruger LCR and Ruger LCP. The LCR is longer, taller, wider (the cylinder on revolvers is like a beer gut for pocket pistols), and heavier. Now, the rounded shape does make it conceal better and draw better than the LCP, but it also makes it feel less secure (at least to me) in a pocket holster. You also can fire an LCR in your pocket and have the action cycle, unlike an LCP (useful if it's in a jacket pocket).
On the mechanics side, the LCR carries 1-2 less rounds than the LCP (depending on if you use the +1), is slower to reload, has a larger footprint for reloads (I feel much more secure with a magazine than I do strips or speed loaders). However, it is more powerful with +P ammunition, it is easier on the hand, and it can't have a FTF/FTE failure.
Overall, I like them both, and they both have their place. I don't have the LC9, because I figured if I'm going to get something that size, I'd rather have a double stack. If I had to recommend one of the 3 to someone for pocket carry, it would be the LCP hands down. Over the snubnose it is smaller, it has more ammo, and it can be reloaded faster, which are all huge pros if you ask me.
Now, we're not comparing a full-size Beretta or Glock against a .380, but probably more along the lines of a Ruger LC9 vs. Ruger LCP or a Sig 238 vs. 938. While some companies make guns that are fairly similar in size (the Sigs are same width and height, with a 0.4" difference in length), others are rather different (LC9 is 0.8" longer, 0.9" taller, and 0.1" wider than the LCP...although it does carry an extra round).
So, some companies have the .380 as a lower-recoil option (the 9mm can be hard for recoil sensitive folks to handle in a pocket pistol size), while other companies use the .380 because it can be had in a significantly smaller package. I don't think you can make a 9mm smaller than my phone.
That leads us to .380 vs. .38. I have both a Ruger LCR and Ruger LCP. The LCR is longer, taller, wider (the cylinder on revolvers is like a beer gut for pocket pistols), and heavier. Now, the rounded shape does make it conceal better and draw better than the LCP, but it also makes it feel less secure (at least to me) in a pocket holster. You also can fire an LCR in your pocket and have the action cycle, unlike an LCP (useful if it's in a jacket pocket).
On the mechanics side, the LCR carries 1-2 less rounds than the LCP (depending on if you use the +1), is slower to reload, has a larger footprint for reloads (I feel much more secure with a magazine than I do strips or speed loaders). However, it is more powerful with +P ammunition, it is easier on the hand, and it can't have a FTF/FTE failure.
Overall, I like them both, and they both have their place. I don't have the LC9, because I figured if I'm going to get something that size, I'd rather have a double stack. If I had to recommend one of the 3 to someone for pocket carry, it would be the LCP hands down. Over the snubnose it is smaller, it has more ammo, and it can be reloaded faster, which are all huge pros if you ask me.
JohnBT
Member
"I have carried it in a shirt pocket."
There's a joke here somewhere about wearing pants. I used to own a P-32 fwiw for a few years. Nice gun, hard chromed, small, rimlocked with hp rounds, etc.
I bought a barely used Rohrbaugh in 2007 for $850 and have pocket carried it daily ever since. I figure that comes out to 27 cents a day and the gun is probably worth more than I paid for it. The black carbon fiber grips alone are worth $200 to $300 last time I checked.
12.8 ounces isn't that heavy even compared to my P-32.
John
There's a joke here somewhere about wearing pants.
I used to own a P-32 fwiw for a few years. Nice gun, hard chromed, small, rimlocked with hp rounds, etc.I bought a barely used Rohrbaugh in 2007 for $850 and have pocket carried it daily ever since. I figure that comes out to 27 cents a day and the gun is probably worth more than I paid for it. The black carbon fiber grips alone are worth $200 to $300 last time I checked.
12.8 ounces isn't that heavy even compared to my P-32.
John
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Redcoat3340
Member
Again, thanks to all for their perspectives. I think after reading it all and thinking about it, I'm going to stay with my Shield for primary carry. I've got an iWB that suits me fine and I can wear my shirts tucked in. I'm proficient with it, it doesn't weigh me down, and I've got confidence in it. As much as I like some of the 380's out there, I'm probably fine on a carry piece and I'll just add to my store of range toys. Now...wonder where I can find a nice, bargain price Star 28 or 9mm 1911?
TruthTellers
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Why? Because it's smaller than a 9mm. It's the same reason some people carry a .32 instead of a .380 or a .25 instead of a .32: it's smaller.
The way I look at the .380 is if you buy one that the manufacturer states is able to shoot higher pressure ammo, then you have a small gun that can shoot a fairly powerful round. The specs on "+P" .380 ammo is 1125-1175 fps for 238 ft/lbs. That's nothing to turn your nose up to.
The way I look at the .380 is if you buy one that the manufacturer states is able to shoot higher pressure ammo, then you have a small gun that can shoot a fairly powerful round. The specs on "+P" .380 ammo is 1125-1175 fps for 238 ft/lbs. That's nothing to turn your nose up to.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Mine is a Bersa CC for that specific times when I need a small CC.
Catpop
Member
LCP for me. 6 rounds per week to stay in tune. Just left New Bern gun show with 2 boxes 380 for $30 otd. I don't intend to reload this one.
JWH321
Member
I have a BG 380 that I bought just because I wanted a really small gun that would go in my pocket comfortably. I looked at LCPs and a couple of others but the BG 380 seemed to be a much better design and it had upgradable sights (I have Williams Firesights on mine).
The BG will never replace the "real" guns and it's NOT a pleasant little gun to shoot at the range, but it is a good reliable firearm that allows me to carry at times when I might otherwise have to go without a gun at all. I find that, even with its shortcomings, I carry the BG 380 a lot.
(And I do reload .380. It works nicely with Titegroup and I have to swallow hard when I see the prices of .380 ammo -ouch.)
The BG will never replace the "real" guns and it's NOT a pleasant little gun to shoot at the range, but it is a good reliable firearm that allows me to carry at times when I might otherwise have to go without a gun at all. I find that, even with its shortcomings, I carry the BG 380 a lot.
(And I do reload .380. It works nicely with Titegroup and I have to swallow hard when I see the prices of .380 ammo -ouch.)
george burns
Member
My guns all have a front night sight. No rear just a front. If I get my sight on anything moving it's going to stop moving. Too much is made about proper stance and hand position etc. When you are hustling to save your life you need things simple, get the front sight on it and fire. If you know your gun, then you know if you are level or not and muscle memory should do the rest.
If you have time to line up your sights then do so, but otherwise do what you have to do to stay alive. I just read it was like 80% misses in gunfights from the Feds. With 4 shots to bring down a perp. That's why I laugh when guys think that 5 or 6 rounds is enough for an armed confrontation. Plus these guys travel in groups of 2 or 3. Just get out of the way.
If you have time to line up your sights then do so, but otherwise do what you have to do to stay alive. I just read it was like 80% misses in gunfights from the Feds. With 4 shots to bring down a perp. That's why I laugh when guys think that 5 or 6 rounds is enough for an armed confrontation. Plus these guys travel in groups of 2 or 3. Just get out of the way.
Had a Guardian and it was the worst gun I have ever owned, but it was pretty.Ehhhh... its even on the Seecamp FAQ page:
But I still want sights.
It can be done.
As far as sights on a pocket 380 go the Sig P238 comes with three dot night sights.
I also put TruGlo on my G42.
Ibmikey
Member
I think just about every avenue as to why buy or why not to buy a pistol in .380 caliber has been discussed and re hashed by now. I personally have no less than thirty .380 and a dozen .32 pistols in the safe, most are old and collectable some new and carried often, all are shooters. The size of the small autos intrigues me and that is reflected in my larger caliber pistols which includes a number in 9x18 & 9x19 pistols from micro size and up. Many of the 9mm and 45 pistols are to big and heavy for my old body to tote around (not so in younger days when a Smith 9mm or GI 45 was a constant companion) so the Micro sized and calibered pistols are more appealing and are more likely to be carried on a daily basis. In summation the answer to the OP in my opinion is I buy/carry what I am personally comfortable with to be concealed and not discovered by onlookers and is of a strength caliber wise to protect in a given situation. Personally my thoughts are a few well placed .22 or .32 bullets are likely to discourage an assailant as effectively as larger calibers while I make my withdrawl.
Others have mentioned more ammo, but I think it bears emphasizing that while we're talking about a "a couple rounds," 7 rounds in an LCP vs 5 in a J Frame is a 40% increase.
Take that along with a very small/flat package that carries more easily than a J Frame, is easier for many people to shoot, and much faster to reload and there's the answer for a lot of folks.
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