.380's?

[gunsablazin]

I do not currently own a small pocket carry/ back up type of pistol. I think the concept of a pocketable .380 as a back up, or for when concealment is an issue, is valid. I have looked at the Taurus, Ruger, and Kel-Tec .380 models, and it looks like they would all be fine. Which one would you buy, and why, is one brand superior to the others? I would think that for the pistols purpose, reliability would be paramount, so who makes the best 'mouse gun" ?

 

[Tommygunn]

I have a Sig P 238 which I like, and a Ruger LCP, which is smaller, lighter, rudimentary sights and a little harder to shoot but is nice.
You're going to get a lot of opinion on which is "better."
The models you list are well known to work fine.

 

[rule303]

All three are made in the US, with the Kel-Tec and Ruger being almost identical, with the Ruger having a little better fit and finish. The sights on those two are almost non existent, and are hard for me to hold on to(large hands). The Taurus is fugly IMO, but feels nice in the hand and has better sights. Get the one that feels most comfortable to you. Any of the pocket .380's take some practice to master.

 

[ambidextrous1]

I suggest that you consider adding the Sig P238 to your choices.

The P238 had an inglorious introduction (teething problems), but recent reviews and comments have been quite favorable.

You might also consider waiting for re-introduction of the Colt Mustang, if/when that happens.

 

[Bmont2409]

I would also vote for the Sig P238 over the others, I have fired the Kel-tec, Ruger, S&W body guard, and like the sig best, S&w next. The other 2 are very light, have no sights that old eyes can see, and usually don't want to shoot a full box through them at one time, however they are extremely light for pocket carry. Colt is also going to have a new style Pocketlite out soon.

 

[dogtown tom]

I couldn't disagree more with the recommendations for a Sig 238.

It's not an ideal pocket pistol based on it's size and the fact that it's a single action......requiring "cocked & locked" carry.

While it may ride quite well in someones pocket, it is the same size as many of the small 9mm pistols. In essence, you are carrying a weaker caliber in the same sized package. The 238 is not in the same size class as the LCP, P3at or Kahr P380. It is closer in size to the Kahr PM9/CM9, Ruger LC9 and several other 9mm pistols.

While "cocked & locked" is fine when carried IWB/OWB, inside a pants pocket is a whole 'nother world of lint and debris. If you choose a single action, exposed hammer semi auto you need to be diligent about checking for lint/etc getting inside. Not to mention the issues with drawing an exposed hammer pistol from inside a pants pocket.

I've owned nearly two dozen .380's and currently have about a dozen. When I chose to carry a .380 it is either a Kahr P380 (the best polymer frame .380 IMHO) or a Ruger LCP (the best value in a .380).

 

[KodiakBeer]

To me, the determining factor is whether it's a blowback gun or a locked breech gun. These pistols are small enough to create problems with quick follow-up shots already, so doubling the "felt" recoil with a blowback action is not a choice I'd make.

I've had several blowback .380's and they've quickly passed out of my life. I often carry a Mustang Pocketlite and I'll never sell that pistol off. I don't think I'd buy a new one until they've been out a year or so and a new track record is established. I'd get the Sig P238 if I was in the market for a pocket gun right now.

 

[wally]

I agree, about the P238, its too close to my Kahr PM40 in size to ever consider it for carry -- that and the fact it is by far the worst for left handed use. When I do carry a mouse gun, its usually for left handed draw.

Come back Tuesday and I'll make a new thread with my opinion of the Taurus .380 after I shoot it tomorrow.


In this thread I've posted photos and my opinion of LCP, P238 & S&W Bodyguard380 vs. Kahr PM40:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=576986


I fancy pistols small for their caliber, and just can't pass them up when the price is right, picked up a Taurus TCP for $230 at yesterday's gun show. Without having shot it, its pretty easy to say it has the best trigger of the LCP, P3AT & Bodyguard.

The P238 is by far the best of these at the range because of the great SA trigger,sights, and larger size/weight -- the P238 weighs more empty than the LCP does fully loaded.

reliability would be paramount

True, but when guns get very small for their caliber reliability decreases as does sensitivity to the shooters grip. Don't test with too many more rounds than you actually intend to carry or you can be in for a lot of unnecessary heartache. After a few sessions with the ammo I plan to carry, I only really gain confidence in it after actual carry and range testing at increasing longer durations. I've had the PM40 long enough that its recently passed its two year carry range test. Now I really trust it!

 

[gordy]

I bought the kel-tec,I put a trigger shoe on it and it works great. It sits in a de santis pocket holster and goes just about every were with me. I have shot the rugers and I see no advantage in the ruger over the kel-tec. It is all cosmetic. The hold open is a laugh when you think about it. IMHO it is just a extra part that does not add up to the extra money. The ruger is a prettier firearm, but in a few years of every day pocket carry, you will be asking your self, Was the extra money for the finish worth it. I think not.
Lots of guys will say that there is no sight picture on the rugers and kel-tec's.
Well sorry to tell you guys, the things are pocket guns not belt guns.
It is ment to shoot at about arms reach to 7 yards, No more!
For the size you can't beat the ruger or kel-tec. You just have to think, do I want to spend the extra money on a ruger. I sead no and bought some reloading dies for the 380.
I reload for my kel-tec and I have a load made that is right at the 1,000fps mark. A 90 grain hornady xtp is going to do what I need and thats the truth.

 

[Zerodefect]

The Kahr p380 is my favorite. Lighter recoil than the Ruger/Keltec. Far better trigger as well.

 

[mdauben]

It's not an ideal pocket pistol based on it's size and the fact that it's a single action......requiring "cocked & locked" carry.

I would disagree with the first and conditionally agree with the second. True, the gun is just a little larger and heavier than the Ruger or Kel-Tek, but not so much as to make it unsuitable for pocket carry. After all, people recomend the S&W J-frame for pocket carry all the time, and the Sig is about the same weight in a smaller, flatter package.

For me the deal breaker was the single action, but just becuase all my other autos are Glocks, so I didn't want to mess with a gun that used a different "manual of arms". If I regularly carried and shot a 1911 style gun, I would seriously consider the Sig.

The Kahr p380 is my favorite. Lighter recoil than the Ruger/Keltec. Far better trigger as well.

Another vote for the Kahr. Like the Sig, its a bit pricy compared to the other .380 pistols recommended, but I like the feel of it better in my hand and (like the Sig) the sights are also much better than most .380s (they are even available with night sights!).

 

[harmon rabb]

For the ultimate in light and small, the polymer pistols are where it's at. The two nicest, softest shooting, with the best triggers are the Kahr P380 and Taurus TCP. Both of them make the LCP and P3AT feel like piles of junk.

However... the Sig 238 makes ALL of them feel like piles of junk. The Sig has the best sights, the best trigger, and is the best shooting. But it's a tad larger, is SAO, and is the heaviest. If you can deal with that, it's the best.

 

[Norton Commando]

I vote for the Kel Tec P-3AT. It's the lightest of the bunch, reliable and inexpensive.

 

[Roverboy]

I have a Ruger LCP with the Crimson Trace trigger guard mounted laser. I like the simplicity and lightness of the gun and I am modifying the recoil springs to reduce recoil. I don't care much for the loooong trigger pull but with continued practice I am getting better groupings.

 

[Cards81fan]

I don't care for the Sig as I like a DAO for my pocket.

I'll quote myself regarding the options you mentioned:

I am a big fan of the TCP after trying one out at the range. I cannot comment on the S&W, but I own an LCP and think the TCP compares favorably to it for several reasons:

1.The trigger was smoother, shorter, and lighter - but not too short or too light for a carry piece
2.The trigger guard is angled/sloped out, and not back in towards your trigger finger. This allows more room for you if you are wearing gloves (I cannot fit a gloved finger in my LCP without working it in there, and I have small hands). This also prevents the trigger finger from getting slapped against the inside of the guard, which can cause it to go numb (happens to me occasionally)
3.The reset is noticeably shorter on the TCP. About one our of every 20 shots with my LCP I will not release the trigger enough to reset it.
4.The palm swell is a bit fuller on the TCP. Not much, but enough it makes it more comfortable IMHO
5.It has a REAL slide lock and release, meaning it locks back on the last fired round of the magazine

(I posted this in another thread, but it is just as relevant here.)

The more I think about it, the more I believe the TCP is a very refined and well thought-out pistol. They took many of the pain points of .380 pistols, and did a great job at resolving those issues. Not to mention this pistol is made in the USA, not Brazil, and the super-patriot inside of me likes that In all seriousness, comparing the fit and finish to my father's other Taurus pistols (24/7 in .45 and a Millenium in 9mm), I think the TCP is of noticeably better quality than the Brazil-finished pistols.

IMHO, I don't much care for a laser on a CCW as I would be point-shooting from 3-5 yards most likely, and not brandishing the laser beforehand (apolgies to the Crimson Trace marketing department). For the same reasons, the sights are not issue either.

Everyone has different opinions on these pocket pistols. Hell, many people think that unless it's a Rohrbaugh or Seecamp, it's not worth carrying. But I really think Taurus has a good thing going with TCP. I bet if you try one, you'd really like it.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

IMO, the size of a gun is only relevant regarding the job it is intended for. If its size is appropriate to its purpose than it's not really relevant how big some other gun may or may not be.

Personally I like the bigger 380's. They just shoot better - Period.

I own The Kel-Tec P3AT, and my wife has the Ruger LCP. Their size is convenient for carry, but they are just a PITA to shoot well. Long trigger pull, paper thin profile, no sights, and only 1.5 fingers on the grip of the gun can make it difficult to shoot even at fairly close range - unless you are focused like a laser, even 7 yard groups can look like a buckshot pattern. Forget about any kind of instinctive shooting or fast point shooting type techniques unless you are going to dump a fortune in ammo down the tube. Long story short, everything that makes then great o carry makes them suck for shooting.

Something that fills your hand and has basic sights is simply a superior weapon for actually shooting. 99% of shooters will hit the target faster and more accurately with a gun like the Sig 232 or Walther PPK. YES, it may be true that these guns are "bigger than a pocket 9/40", but they also shoot better for the majority of people.

One of my biggest gun blunders was selling off a clean Sig 232 that developed a broken or weak detente spring in its takedown lever a few weeks after I purchased it (used). Rather than send it in for a simple and quick warranty repair i sold it off and moved on. That gun was such a sweet shooter, and while not a "pocket gun", it was small enough to conceal easily.

Unless your definition of "deep cover" is concealing a gun in a shirt pocket, then I recommend a gun you can actually get a hold of. If you need something that small that bad, then get an NAA mini revolver. :/

 

[Cron]

I like this one. Yeah, it's a little bit large but it's dependable and accurate and handles better than the little guys. Recoil is kinda stiff for a .380.

 

[wally]

For me the purpose is to be effective if God forbid, I ever need to use it. The CZ83 is a nice pistol but in that size/weight range you have a whole lot of choices in 9mm and 40S&W pistols and a few .45ACP options.

I carry the biggest I can conceal, and unfortunately sometimes its only one of the little .380s.

 

[loganmn]

Take a look at the bersa thunder 380.. a little larger blowback ppk alike.. metal frame. I love mine.. its actually fun to shoot more than once!

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

 

[rondog]

I have a Bersa Thunder .380 and like it a lot, but I don't carry it, I carry a RIA Compact 1911 in .45. I was looking at some Sig P238's a couple days ago, and I agree they're very impressive little guns! I wouldn't mind having one myself.

 

[gunsablazin]

Deep concealment

I still like the little DAO guns for my intended purpose, but thanks for all the feed back on other nice .380's. I'm thinking the .380 would be nice to have in a pocket when I can't carry a "gun".

 

[heeler]

Well you either love them or hate them but personally the little pocket .380's rate very highly with me and due to size,weight,and comfort factor I find myself carrying my Diamondback .380 sometimes more than my PM9.
At 12 ounces fully loaded and 3/4 of an inch wide they are true wonders.

 

[shootingthebreeze]

Kahr P380- first off, quality, and good grip even for large hands. Handgun comes with 2 magazines. Sights: suprior to others in low light. Reviews are very positive. Accurate.
After tons of research on this type of firearm I have settled with the Kahr P380.

 

[GoodKat]

The Kahr is probably the best of the poly's, though I went with a sig, partly out of vanity.

 

[GCBurner]

I went with the Kel-Tec over the Ruger, mainly for the cost factor. They're both very light, and easily concealable in a pocket holster. They're more accurate than you'd think, but it takes a lot of practice to realize it, getting used to the snappy kick, the long trigger pull, and the rudimentary sights. I used white auto touch-up paint to highlight the front sight, and mostly practice at 7 to 10 yards. It will keep all the rounds inside an 8" bullseye at that range, and do it reliably, and reliability is the main thing I was looking for in an emergency defense tool.