.400 Whelen vs. .411 hawk

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jessesky

Jessesky

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
981
Does anyone have experience of the .400 whelen. Is there any issue with shouldering as I’ve read about? Is there a reason to go with one or the other? Both are descendants of the 30-06 case, perhaps bullet availability will be the deciding factor?

Lastly if you load for the .411 hawk or .400 wehlen, what performance are you getting? I’d like this for big game up to bear defense.
 

Attachments

  • FEE60322-DBEC-4121-8302-7A84AB760748.jpeg
    FEE60322-DBEC-4121-8302-7A84AB760748.jpeg
    41.7 KB · Views: 36
I have no experience. But i did consider the .400 once about 15 years ago.
I decided if i went that route with the '06 case it would be in .375
 
the Black Spot said:
I have no experience. But i did consider the .400 once about 15 years ago.
I decided if i went that route with the '06 case it would be in .375
Click to expand...
I feel like the 375 is close enough to the 35 whelen to be applicable for the same purposes. That’s what I liked about the .400 being able to send 400gr bullets at a respectable velocity
 
Its the neck that worried me, and i figured the 300 gr in a .375 would provide just as good penetration.
I even thought about a .404 jeffery at one point
 
What do you call respectable velocity?

Personally, I don't think an 06 size case will give enough velocity for .375 300 grain bullets, or 400 bore 400 grain bullets... At least, not for ME, if for any bigger bear...

DM...
 
DM~ said:
What do you call respectable velocity?

Personally, I don't think an 06 size case will give enough velocity for .375 300 grain bullets, or 400 bore 400 grain bullets... At least, not for ME, if for any bigger bear...

DM...
Click to expand...
On Ammoguide.com (my handloading website) there are multiple published loads that get the 400gr .400 whelen to 2150 fps. That’s a lot of horsepower, enough for most any bear.
 
Ive read that penetration falls off above 2400ish fps, but more velocity UP to that point is helpfull...at least with Non-expanding dangerous game bullets.

Ive never looked into any of these variants of the 06 case (my issue is the shoulders are smaller than I like), but i ran the .375 Whelen, and the .400 Brown-Whelen, thru quickloads. It LOOKS like the .375 should be able to get a 300 hornady DGS upto around 2400fps, and the .400 should be able to get a 400gr solid upto the 2150ish Jesse listed.
The 400 has a higher sectional density, and im not sure as to how much the extra velocity would help the .375s 300grs.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1532&magid=104
Neat article that talks about the .411 Hawk, and .375 Scovill
 
LoonWulf said:
Ive read that penetration falls off above 2400ish fps, but more velocity UP to that point is helpfull...at least with Non-expanding dangerous game bullets.

Ive never looked into any of these variants of the 06 case (my issue is the shoulders are smaller than I like), but i ran the .375 Whelen, and the .400 Brown-Whelen, thru quickloads. It LOOKS like the .375 should be able to get a 300 hornady DGS upto around 2400fps, and the .400 should be able to get a 400gr solid upto the 2150ish Jesse listed.
The 400 has a higher sectional density, and im not sure as to how much the extra velocity would help the .375s 300grs.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1532&magid=104
Neat article that talks about the .411 Hawk, and .375 Scovill
Click to expand...

I just finished reading the article on Ed, sounds like I’ll be building a .411 hawk. Really neat article as well
 
Jessesky said:
I just finished reading the article on Ed, sounds like I’ll be building a .411 hawk. Really neat article as well
Click to expand...
Yeah I liked it.
First I've read about the Hawk also. If for some reason I luck into a 7600 it might be on the list....tho the .375 I already stock bullets for.
 
I've hunted big bears a lot, killed a few and seen many more killed...

Personally, I'd want a different case for .375 and for sure for any larger diameter bullet...

I found 275 Speers in my .338-06 would shoot through a big bear corner to corner (with good expansion) and that's good enough for me... 250 NP's are also good in that cartridge...

I trust the "added shoulder" of the .338 version MUCH more, as when you are out "there" ammo can sometimes get some rough handling, so NO 375 or 400 on that case for me, for sure...

DM
 
DM~ said:
I've hunted big bears a lot, killed a few and seen many more killed...

Personally, I'd want a different case for .375 and for sure for any larger diameter bullet...

I found 275 Speers in my .338-06 would shoot through a big bear corner to corner (with good expansion) and that's good enough for me... 250 NP's are also good in that cartridge...

I trust the "added shoulder" of the .338 version MUCH more, as when you are out "there" ammo can sometimes get some rough handling, so NO 375 or 400 on that case for me, for sure...

DM
Click to expand...
I have a sako l61r 375 h&h that i use and can rely on. That rifle is my “tool” , anything more is because I like messing around with rifles and building things many other people would find unique. If I can make the 411 work reliably I think it could be fun to handload for.
 
I have the 400 Whelen made by Griffin & Howe made for Col. Whelen. this came out Of the Phill Sharp Collection with original Brass . i found The shoulder to be Tight when Chambering and no reaction with headspace. Using Sharps Original Loading. The recoil In not Pleasant. the rifle has Open sights and very accurate @ 100yds
 
DM~ said:
Except, you wouldn't be able to push those bullets fast enough to work "properly".

DM
Click to expand...
At 2150 FPS, I spoke to swift and they told me the .416 semi-spitzer A frame will expand down to 1650fps, which is even lower than I like. Also most bullets I’d use are non-expanding solids for penetration
 
Part of the logic behind the 35 Brown-Whelen cartridge configuration was to give the 35 Cal cartridge a better shoulder to headspace on, so the 40 cal version of the '06 case would worry me. The 411 Hawk seems to take that concern more into consideration.

But using the '06 case for calibers larger than 35 seems less than optimal. In a Handi Rifle, the 444 Marlin will push a 325 grs bullet at 2150 and the 45-70 will do the same with a 400 grs bullet without headspace concerns and with non-belted, brass nearly as ubiquitous as the '06 case. Neither the 444 nor the 45-70 are inadequate for bear.

It seems to me that that making the '06 case push 300+ grs bullets is at the outer edge of diminishing returns. But, logic is not the driving force behind wildcatting, so the better shoulder on the Hawk would seem to make that the better choice of the two.
 
Jessesky said:
At 2150 FPS, I spoke to swift and they told me the .416 semi-spitzer A frame will expand down to 1650fps, which is even lower than I like. Also most bullets I’d use are non-expanding solids for penetration
Click to expand...
Have you ever shot anything with a Swift... They are a bullet that expands too slow for me, so IF you like solids, the next step down will be a Swift...and maybe that's what you want?

Solids are NOT a good choice for anything in the lower 48, Canada or Alaska, and I want an expanding bullet to expand fast and plow on through.....

DM
 
A 35 whelen Ackley Improved is about all the power you can squeeze out of a 3006 case.
 
salpal48 said:
I have the 400 Whelen made by Griffin & Howe made for Col. Whelen. this came out Of the Phill Sharp Collection with original Brass . i found The shoulder to be Tight when Chambering and no reaction with headspace. Using Sharps Original Loading. The recoil In not Pleasant. the rifle has Open sights and very accurate @ 100yds
Click to expand...
Congrats for having that rifle with such a pedigree. If you can post pics of it, please do. Thanks in advance.
 
Encloses is a Photo Of my 400 Whelen by G&H
this is from my Catalog . this is a Classic G&H style Mauser Action. This rifle has a single digit serial # appox date 1924. express sights+ Lyman Peep site 400 whelen - 1.jpg Stock Classic G& H with G&h pad which I replaced. I had Griffin recut the Checkering when The pad was done.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LRDGCO
  • Locked
338-06 vs 35 Whelen
2 3
Replies
51
Views
12K
ExAgoradzo
ExAgoradzo
S
  • Locked
338-06 vs. 35 Whelen...what's you take??
Replies
11
Views
3K
Palehorseman
P
Float Pilot
  • Locked
Thinking about building another Rifle 338-06, 35 Whelen or 375
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
ECVMatt
ECVMatt
K
  • Locked
Reloaders prespective on a medium bore.
Replies
16
Views
1K
tahoe2
tahoe2
H&Hhunter
  • Locked
The sweetest .400 bore rifle.
2 3
Replies
65
Views
4K
H&Hhunter
H&Hhunter
Back
Top