44 Spl or 45 LC in a double action revolver?

[Slamfire]

I cannot think of an single time where the extractor star missed a 45 LC case rim on my M25-7 or M625-9.

Still, I eject most of my rounds with the muzzle up. I found that reduces the chance for unburnt powder to get under the extractor star.

 

[Brian Williams]

45 Colt works very well in a 5 shot Taurus Tracker. I wish I had the one I sold to fund another project gun.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The .45 Colt was fine with the Single Action Army because the SAA has a rod ejector.

But when the Army adopted the Colt New Service as the Model 1909, they found that the tiny rim of the .45 Colt tended to slip past the extractor and hang up the gun. They ended up making their own .45 ammo with a larger rim.

That problem has not gone away. Go with the .44 Special.

The problem has gone away -- in fact, it was solved by widening the rim way back in the late 1800s. Narrow rimmed .45 Colt cases have not been made for a hundred years.

My Colt New Service was built in 1906 (and the model came out in 1898.) These fine double action revolvers were designed for the .45 Colt and work as well as any S&W .44 Special.

Note Winchester and other rifle manufacturers did not build rifles in .45 Colt because of the narrow rims in those days. But nowadays several manufacturers offer carbines in .45 Colt -- the wider rims that have been around for more than a century work well in carbines.

 

[FoMoGo]

When I am teaching someone on the use of a revolver, I always show them to eject it muzzle up.
For right handed shooters...
Push cyl release.
Use left hand... push cyl open with fingers of left hand.
Grip cyl with fingers and thumb of left hand.
Turn pistol muzzle up and eject cases using right hand... or left thumb if their particular pistol ejects the empties easily.
Tilt barrel downward at appx 45* angle.
Reload cyl.
Grasp grip in right hand as you rotate the cyl into the frame... push solidly to lock it in.
Use left hand to rotate cyl till it catches.

Works very well.


Jim

 

[Oro]

The .44 S&W Special is at home in an N-frame...

But I have had no ejection problems with .45 Long Colt in N frame S&W's. They work fine in that revolver design. But the fact is, the .44 S&W Special was designed for the N-frame, and vice versa...

Both were introduced in 1909 as a matched pair, and they work together beautifully, just like the .38 S&W Special and the K frame (1899) and the .45 ACP and the 1911 (1910). There is a trend for guns and cartridges designed around each other to just fit right unlike later cartridges adapted to that frame.

Now, the argument that the .45LC works as well in the N frame is valid; the two cartridges are very similar in their SAAMI loadings of pressure and projectile weight. I do not find a major difference between .44 Special, .45LC, and .45 acp when shooting them from an N-frame S&W. All three rounds are very similar in pressure, projectile weight, diameter, and velocity. Within the loading range of each caliber, they overlap so much as to be indistinguishable in most cases if the shooter is blindfolded.

So I do not accept the fact that one is "vastly" superior in a large double action revolver at all - that's nonsense and could only be based on a lack of experience with the different calibers.

1) DA S&W large frame revolver in .45 Long Colt, shoots just as sweet as a .44 or .45acp:

 

[EnsignJimmy]

I've had no problems with ejecting .45 Colt rounds in my double-action revolvers, and I've owned a S&W 25-5, a Ruger Redhawk, and three Colt New Services . . . two of which are over a century old. I've also not had problems ejecting them from my Marlin rifle.

They're also the finest guns I've owned. (Okay, not so much the S&W. That one was a bit of a dog.) My Redhawk handles moose-stompers with aplomb, and my "old model" New Service (made in 1902) shoots like a laser beam.

Though if you absolutely must have 100% reliable ejection in a .45 Colt DA revolver (using ancient balloon-head narrow-rimmed cases no less,) you could always ask to borrow one of my 1878s.

 

[High Desert Hunter]

Well I must say that in over 5000 rounds of 45 Colt in DA revolvers, many loaded to 454 levels (in my Ruger 454), I have never had the extractor slip over the rim. Most of my 45 Colt loads are assembled in Starline brass, but I do have some mixed brass as well. Of course I have never had a problem in any of my SA revolvers. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I haven't seen it.

Dave

 

[VINTAGE-SLOTCARS]

I own a S&W 25-5 and a m-29 in 44mag both w/4" barrels. I enjoy both just as much. The m25 was not designed to handle magmum loads. Since I also reload the 44mag, can be down loaded to a mild shooter. I shoot magnum loads with jacked bullets and lighter loads w/case slugs. I would get the m29 as suggested by others as you would have the option of differant loads at any time.

 

[High Desert Hunter]

I seriously doubt that there is anything in North America that wouldn't fall to a well placed 285gr cast bullet at 900-1100fps from my M25-13, at 1000fps that bullet will penetrate 24" of wet news print. I don't load mine to anymore than a 45 ACP+P, and I am sure it will stand up to them for a long time to come. I really like the accuracy my 45 gives me as well.

 

[goodtime]

Wouldn't it be nice if a gun manufacturer developed a double action revolver with a crane and cylinder assembly that allowed easy removal of the cylinder? I love my Ruger .45 lc/45.acp convertible. I dont think it would be too difficult to create such a DA. If one existed, I'd take it over the .44 spl for the versatility alone.
Even in the present reality, I like the 45 lc because of the wide range of different loadings, even within SAAMI specs.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

In a Ruger, 45 Long Colt...

I thought the "ruger only" loads were for the blackhawks.

 

[Meeteetse]

Either one. I have DA guns in each caliber and they perform and function perfectly. Never had a problem with either. They are both accurate, and they both hit hard at moderate velocities.

I have had more problems trying to quickly unload/load a .38 than I have ever had with my DA .45Colt. All DA guns will hang up during ejection if you don't do it properly.

If I had to choose, I would not pick either of my caliber specific guns. I 'd go with a .44 mag to have more choices.

 

[EnsignJimmy]

I thought the "ruger only" loads were for the blackhawks.

Not so. The Redhawk's frame and cylinder are definitely beefier than the Blackhawk's. The new Redhawks also have huge, recoil-soaking Hogue grips. John Taffin loads his somewhat hotter than he does his Blackhawks, and I know mine comfortably eats up 300 to 335 grain loads . . . both handloads and Cor-Bon fire-breathers.

Mind you, such stuff makes shooting an N-frame S&W .44 Magnum seem like a relaxing day of shooting 9mm out of a steel-frame semiauto, so most of the shooting I do with the Redhawk involves plain, standard-pressure 250 grain loads. But the Ruger Redhawk definitely has it where it counts.

 

[MCMXI]

I find the Ruger Redhawk (KRH-45-4) more pleasant to shoot with hot loads than my 629 (with factory, Hogue or Pachmayr grips) with equivalent hot loads. They weigh about the same when loaded but the Ruger does a better job of reducing "felt" recoil. In fact, I'll admit that I had a certain amount of trepidation when I shot 250 grain and 300 grain bullets with WELL over 20 grains of H110. To my surprise, the recoil is VERY manageable.

 

[Black Dime]

Love my twin Colt SAA 45Colt.

 

[Gryffydd]

Love my twin Colt SAA 45Colt.

Those are very nice...but you did notice that this thread relates to double action revolvers, right?

 

[Johnboy53]

I have a new 25 Smith and it shoots great. After a trigger job the double action is about 6 lbs.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I'd have to go with 44spl when chosing between the 2, however had venturiono been comparing the larger counterparts of these 2 rounds (the 44 mag and 454 cassul) I think the testing may have gone differently.

 

[mavracer]

I currently own only DA 44 specials and SA 45 Colts.I wouldn't be opposed to changing this anybody got a 45Colt Mountain gun to donate?

 

[Moonclip]

I have seen the .45lc problem in long guns but never in my 25-5 or another I fired but I eject the brass properly. I no longer use the 25-5 for home defense but I probably would again.

I have a CA bulldog in .44spl, all I have had were marginal quality, as well as a Taurus mod 431 which is the best Taurus revolver I have ever owned. Extremely accurate.

I have wanted a S&W pre lock N frame in .44spl for some reasosn, maybe home defense. And I have owned .45acp DA revolvers sine 1997 and have yet to try auto rim i them!

Anyone know much anout the discontinued smalled framed Taurus 5 shot revolvers in .45lc and .44spl, the mod 445 and 450?

I have decided I need one. Are they as small as a bulldog? Which caliber should I get it in?

 

[FoMoGo]

We have a Taurus 445 and I just bought another one... waiting for it to ship.
They are more the size of a S&W K frame than a charter bulldog.
For a .44 snubby they are a dream to shoot.
I have shot all the loads I make for my S&W M21 Thunder Ranch thru the taurus... and I am amazed to say, it handled them as wel as the big smith.
It may be that I have a wooden hogue monogrip on the smith and the taurus has the factory rubber grips.
The snubby, of course, has more muzzle flip... but it actually easier on the hand.
It is one of my wifes carry guns, and the last family trip to the range the 11 year old was shooting it with full strength .44 special loads in it.
This is how it compares, size wise, to her other carry pistol... High Standard 1911 compact.


Hope this helps some.


Jim

 

[Stainz]

Below are my '.44 Specials - a 296, 696, 4" 629, & 6" 629. The L-frame 296 & 696 take the same HKS Speedloader as the CA and Taurus - HKS #CA44. They have a small forcing cone edge, limiting their use to medium .44 Specials max for longevity. The Speer #4427 loaded by GA Arms as a .44 Special protective round is kept loaded for all four (HKS #29 for the 629s). To be honest, I cannot reccommend the 696 for a lot of wide range .44 Special shooting. The 4" 629 weighs only six ounces more - and what a stout revolver! Seriously, do not lament the missing 5-banger Taurus .44 Specials - just get their short barrel .44 Magnums, you'll be happier.



One final caveat re the Taurus snubby .44 Special - the all-titanium (#445?) version. We had two come through the public range during my tenure as an RO there. Neither would shoot more than a couple of cylinders full before the cylinder would drag on it's yoke axle to the point where the revolver was useless. A 50 round box of the 200gr CCI Blazers was an all-day shooting event. It was a thermal & rough reamed problem - admittedly, titanium is an easily galled metal. The S&W 296/396, like my 296, is alloy framed - and you can shoot whatever your mitts can stand.

Of course, if you don't reload, .44 Specials can be hard to find and expensive. That .45 ACP suggestion I made looks better, if you don't reload.

Stainz

 

[FoMoGo]

Agreed, I have heard of a few titanium 445s hanging up.
The 455 .45 acp is an extreme rarity, I am looking for one myself.
I have located a 450 lightweight in .45 colt, that I am seriously considering.
The main issue I have with the taurus .44 magnum 5 shot is they are 3" barrels and ported.
The barrel is advertised as 2.5" but the ported length is not counted since it isnt rifled.
I looked HARD at the taurus .44 magnum, but its extra height and length... and grip bulk, but that is easily solved... limited its usefulness for concealing.
I am VERY pleased with our 445s.


Jim

 

[Biker]

FoMoGo...

I've been carrying a 450 for years now. It is a pleasure to shoot and I've had no problems with it.

Biker

 

[Moonclip]

I like and own various Taurus firearms but I feel leery of the .44mag models and any of the exotic titanium/lightweight versions.

If I can come across any of the smaller 5 shot .44spl/.45acp/.45lc versions in all steel at a good price I might go for it.

A CA bulldog sized and weight gun with better quality is a dream gun of mine I'd like to see.