44mag accuracy issues

[bocefus78]

I'm on a phone so please excuse abbreviation. Went to range and shot some 44mag deer loads. 240Xtp with 4227 and they were perfect. For fun I got out some 240 extreme with 7.5 unique. Actually shot as good as the xtp. 10 shots in 1 ragged hole. Poi was only 1 inch different than the xtps.

Here's problem. Got out 240 extreme with 9.0 of 700x. Same bullet, same brass, same primer. Literally couldn't hit paper at 50yds! Went to 25yds...same results.

I loaded these early in my reloading career so mistakes are possible. One being crimp too light compared to the hunting loads.

I also know it's not the best use of this powder. Can the "wrong" powder do this?

Is too light crimp gonna give me lack of accuracy that bad?

These were all shot from a marlin 1894 and a srh 7.5" with the same results. From rest also.

 

[Walkalong]

May be the powder, may be the gun doesn't like the X-Treme bullet. Could be both.

9.0 Grs of 700X is going to be a pretty violent start for a plated bullet.

 

[Hummer70]

I had a Marlin 1894 in 357 Mag that printed 6" at 200 yards with 2400. I reloaded same brass, primers, bullets and changed to Blue Dot and it printed 15" at 100 yards.

I suspected base deformation of the bullet and thusly when I got to Aberdeen Proving Ground I tested it in a soft recovery fixture and lo and be hold the base of the bullets with blue dot and deformed making them a concave base.

Thusly we determined the Blue Dot had too fast of a pressure spike on firing and I went back to 2400.

I have had two 44 Mag lever guns and both shot about 4" at 100 yards and that was best either would do. From 100 to 125 they dropped like 6".

If anyone is interested a soft recovery system can be made up with a little work if you have the room for it.

 

[bocefus78]

I wondered if the 9gr was too much too fast. There was no min charge listed and I understood that to be don't download this charge too far. Am I wrong on this?

Max on that load is 9.5 per manufacturer. I have a 4lb jug of it and was trying to find another load and not use up all my unique.

I guess I need to start using it in my 9 or .40 instead. Will it perform better in either of those calibers? Again, plated pills in these two guns. Hopefully it does in .40 as my lee powder drop hates small charges of flake powder.

 

[buck460XVR]

Max on that load is 9.5 per manufacturer.

That was for a lead bullet. Many of the heavy plated bullets act more like jacketed. Since you had good luck with the bullet with other powders, for sure it's a wrong powder for the application.

 

[TenDriver]

I wondered if the 9gr was too much too fast. There was no min charge listed and I understood that to be don't download this charge too far. Am I wrong on this?



Max on that load is 9.5 per manufacturer. I have a 4lb jug of it and was trying to find another load and not use up all my unique.



I guess I need to start using it in my 9 or .40 instead. Will it perform better in either of those calibers? Again, plated pills in these two guns. Hopefully it does in .40 as my lee powder drop hates small charges of flake powder.

700-X is downloadable. I've gone as low as 2.0 with your same bullet in a Rossi 92. I load 4.3 gr with that bullet in 44 Spl for my wife. Maybe I'd up it to 4.6-.7 in a magnum case to duplicate that Spl load.

For as bad as it meters, 700-X is a pretty sweet powder in my book.

 

[Rule3]

The powder variation is like night and day. To fast a powder for the 44 Mag (700x)

You generated more pressure with the 700x and less velocity than 4227 per the Hodgdon data! (But as mentioned with a lead bullet. Probably why they do not list 700 for the Nosler jacketed

 

[blarby]

To address the root of the problem....

You really shouldn't be using plated bullets for hunting anyway. Especially given that you have the XTP's sitting right there :/

But yes, you apparently have found a load your gun(s) does not like. Barrel harmonics discussion aside, every load will work differently in almost every firearm.

Sounds like I'd steer clear of the 700x/ plated bullet combo in those two !


Without speed data, its hard to say- but rule3 pretty much nailed it- thats a very spikey pressure curve ya got there !

 

[TenDriver]

Hitting on your crimp question, and I might get beat up for this, but:

When I'm loading light with 700-X I crimp just enough to take the flare out of the case. If I'm going hot with H-110, AA 9, IMR-4227, etc, it's a firm roll crimp.

My feeling is crimp does little to nothing beneficial with light loads. I have found no reason to go heavy with faster powders because it just doesn't work, as you're finding out and Rule3 stated.

 

[murf]

try a different primer with that 700x powder.

murf

 

[bocefus78]

No plated for hunting

Just to clarify. ..the plated pills are for paper. I know better than to hunt with them.
I was just stating that I was at the range to test the xtps for for the last time before hunting which opens this weekend. I got out some target plated ammo afterwards.

I re crimped a few to try at the range next time...otherwise I'll see if my neighbors rossi 92 will like them. I refuse to use my hammer puller. Pos.

Any better way to pull bullets? This is my first time needing to do so. I have about 75 to do.

 

[TenDriver]

Just to clarify. ..the plated pills are for paper. I know better than to hunt with them.
I was just stating that I was at the range to test the xtps for for the last time before hunting which opens this weekend. I got out some target plated ammo afterwards.

I re crimped a few to try at the range next time...otherwise I'll see if my neighbors rossi 92 will like them. I refuse to use my hammer puller. Pos.

Any better way to pull bullets? This is my first time needing to do so. I have about 75 to do.

Collet puller. It's worth the investment.

 

[buck460XVR]

Any better way to pull bullets? This is my first time needing to do so. I have about 75 to do.

Yeah...don't load 'em in the first place.

One thing I always tell new reloaders. Never, ever load more than a few rounds anytime you are using new components or recipes. Biggest mistake most make is assuming that the loads will shoot good enough and they skip the 5-10 round test loads. While it's fun to pull the handle and pop out a 100 finished rounds, it's not much fun pullin' bullets. It's also a good waste of time, effort and materials to let 'em sit or throw 'em downrange anyway. If you have 75 to pull, I'm guessing you loaded 100 without knowing how they shoot. If you had loaded 10 or even 20 and tried 'em first before going hog wild, you wouldn't be pullin' any.

 

[Sunray]

"...with 9.0 of 700x..." Did you work that up or just pick it? It's .5 below max. You must work up the load.
Anyway, 700X is given as a cast bullet powder by Hodgdon. No jacketed data. Most likely not tested that last time they did 'em. However, it just means your revolver doesn't like the powder/bullet combination.
A plated bullet is treated like a cast bullet. Cast/lead bullets have killed more game than any jacketed bullet could dream about. You're just limited by velocity.
"...my hammer puller. Pos..." The latter having to do with bits of excrement? Operator failure. You gotta bash inertia pullers on something hard like a nice piece of granite or the like. Wood, carpeted wood and anything like it is too soft. Even concrete is too soft.

 

[TenDriver]

That collet puller will also salvage your powder. if you're located near me, come on by and use mine. I just got the collet to pull .430 bullets not too long ago.

 

[Walkalong]

Plated Bullets are not lead, so don't use lead data. They are not jacketed, so don't use jacketed data. They are somewhere in between.

The velocity limits of 1200 FPS is a very good guideline. They can sometimes take a bit more, and sometimes a bit less.

I run some Ranier and Berrys bullets with full jacketed data. That can not be done for all bullets and calibers though. Starting lead data can be too weak, and max jacketed data can sometimes get you in trouble.

I have only been able to tumble plated bullets at high velocities in revolvers. I have run them at over 1300 FPS in autos without issues and good accuracy.

The good news is that there is more plated data than ever out there.