.45 Weak?

[jon_in_wv]

I think the .45 will always be a good choice for defense though. In the FBI gelatin tests the 230gr Hydrashok did really well. The hydrashoks aren't my favorite in smaller calibers but I think it still sets the standard for the .45acp. If your tastes go toward something with more oomph. Doubletap makes some wicked loads for the 45.

 

[antsi]

A full size 1911 in 45 acp has much more felt recoil than the same pistol in 9mm. If it hits harder on my end, I bet it hits harder on the other end as well.

Yeah, but the difference is trivial - neither will incapacitate you from the force of its recoil. Unless you want a handgun with so much recoil as to be incapacitating to the shooter, I don't think this formula is going to be very helpful.

 

[golden]

JON in WV

I could not agree with you more on the 230 grain HYDRO SHOK load in the .45ACP. It has an excellent balance of stopping power and penetration.
By the FBI standard, it was deficient in penetration with an average of 12 inches. Compare that with the 15 t0 18 inch depth which the FBI was advocating.
The .45ACP FMJ (full metal jacket) load penetrates to 27 inches while 9m.m. ball will go to 24 inches.

This is why I had so little faith in the FBI work on this.

Two observations.

The 9m.m. SILVERTIP load that the FBI blamed for under penetration during the MIAMI gunfight that cost the lives of several agents will only penetrate about 8 inches.
The WINCHESTER +P+ load used by some FEDERAL agencies without any problems pentrates only 1/10 of an inch more!

My second observation is that almost all 9m.m. +P and +P+ and .40 caliber 155 grain JHP loads will penetrate to the 12 to 15 inch depth that the .45ACP HYDRO SHOK reaches. They are all outstanding performers on the street.

Jim
All three

 

[jon_in_wv]

The government always looks for hardware solutions to software problems. The FBI shootout was a failure of TACTICS and TRAINING. Its so much easier to blame the bullet than the agent who simply screwed the pooch that day. I still believe the FBI reports should be taken with a grain of salt. The FBI went into that escapade looking for a scapegoat and I believe they WANTED to prove that it was a failure of penetration that caused the problem not a failure of themselves that they have destroyed the culture of the warrior that would have given those agents the training and mindset to prevail on that day.
The most powerful .45 won't be worth a nickel if you are not willing and able to utilize it. The weapon in your hand is only as effective as the operator can make it. A competent armed and determined fighter with a .32 is more dangerous than a coward with a .45!