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458. Winchester for Deer

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by dirtnap405, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. Krogen

    Krogen Member

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    Download it to 45-70 velocity. It'll take out the deer and not your shoulder. Most 458s are heavy, though. Lugging one around gets old pretty quick.
     
  2. sixgunner455

    sixgunner455 Member

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    Muzzleloaders, shotguns w/slugs, .45-70, .444, etc, etc, have been killing deer with big fat slugs of lead for ... centuries, some of them. Load that .458 up and go use it. Don't just let it collect dust in the safe!
     
  3. brnmw

    brnmw Member

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    Never used that but I have used .45-70 Gov't. before does just fine. It has a much higher velocity than the .45-70 Gov't. though so I don't think it would really be my first choice IMO.
     
  4. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    That is as true a statement as has ever been written regarding cartridge selection. You can always load DOWN But you can't always load UP.
     
  5. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

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    Why would it need to expand? You wouldn't need to run full power loads.You could load it down to 45-70 trapdoor level loads.
     
  6. willypete

    willypete Member

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    As some others have already noted, the only downside I can think of is that .458 Win Mag rifles tend to be heavy. If you're hunting from a stand or a blind, that's not a problem.
     
  7. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Yea, the 444 will work, but, if you're going to go to a levergun (does anyone make a bolt gun in .444?) you might as well provide yourself with a cartridge that has considerably greater unility. Wait for it, wait, wait the 45-70.:evil:

    The eternaly .444 vs 45-70 debate can now begin.:rolleyes:

    Seriously, you can easily load a .458 down to 45-70 velocities and using either lighter jacketed bullets or hard cast lead designed for the 45-70 (they are the same diameter as the .458)have a round that would work well on deer.
     
  8. oldpapps

    oldpapps Member

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    I used a .375 H&H. Is that close enough.

    I loaded 285 grains lead to about 1800 FPS and used a Ruger Number 1. One shot, a little high, broadside, snipped the spine and dropped without a step. What I imagined a broom handle would make if it passes through. Don't think the slug expanded, it was long gone and nothing gave any indication of any expansion. Tastee.
     
  9. Fleetman

    Fleetman Member

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    As said, use what you want and/or have. A .458 is not the Hammer of Thor that the uninitiated think it is and someone else posted that it will do less meat damage than an expanding .25-06.....very true.

    You could download it but I think you'll do just fine with a Hornady soft point.....a solid will work fine also.

    There will be a bunch of naysayers in here but use what YOU want. However, if you really need to ask this question then maybe you don't have one?

    I've heard a lot of people say a .50BMG will absolutely vaporize a deer......BS! A .50BMG simply passes straight through with minimal meat damage....other then the 1/2" hole that is often less than the expanded aforementioned .25-06.

    I was salivating at the thought of taking down a dead, insect and woodpecker-ridden tree next to my backstop with the .50 but was pretty disappointed when ten 660 grain rounds just sailed straight through...the same with several pumpkins. A .22WRM did MUCH more damage to the pumpkins than the 50 did.
     
  10. Krogen

    Krogen Member

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    Good points, Fleetman. It also depends on the bullet selection. Believe me, at .458 velocities, a 350 gr Hornady soft point will expand and a 300 gr Sierra hollow point will come apart. Both will impart a lot of energy into the target. Always wanted to explode a rockchuck with that 300 gr slug. . . . :barf:

    For giggles, my buds and I used a .458 to blow up 5 gallon metal paint cans filled with water. The crimped-on lid would generally fly up 6-7 feet and the sides of the can would swell 3-4" all around. Often the side would split. It took lighter, softer slugs to do this. Stoutly constructed 500 grain solids and soft points just poked a hole in both sides of the can with zero drama.
     
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I have shot a milk jug full of water with my .458 and it simply exploded into tiny fragments and a million water droplets. Nothing really left to recover.
     
  12. Fleetman

    Fleetman Member

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    No doubt.....same thing with a .204, .30-06, etc, etc, etc. A lot also depends on how full the jug is too...a little air space will tear the jug apart; a full jug gets it blown into pieces.
     
  13. sixgunner455

    sixgunner455 Member

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    Fleetman - try shooting watermelons with that .50 BMG. About 100 yards, military ball = Bright red cloud of mist in all directions, as I recall.
     
  14. Fleetman

    Fleetman Member

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    Yep....seen it.....don't know why watermelons explode so dramatically unless it's because of greater water content. Watermelons are scarce to shoot at here though unless I buy them but we have a BUMPER crop of pumpkins every year. Most of ours are wild and we throw a few old ones to the sides of our range so targets just keep growing.

    One thing I've noticed is turkeys absolutely LOVE pumpkin guts!
     
  15. raindog

    raindog Member

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    I think Thor would use a .950 JDJ.
     
  16. mr.trooper

    mr.trooper Member

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    Sure ... Just make sure you fill the case with TrailBoss. That may get the muzzle velocity down to around Trap-Door 45-70 territory. Good enough for the deer, and probably wont kick at all out of a heavy Safari rifle.
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    A case full of Trail Boss and a Hornady 350 Gr SP will get about 1175 FPS. Not quite .44 Mag from a pistol power.
    Kind of a "poot" and that's it.


    AA 5744 will get you .45-70 performance.
     
  18. rugerman

    rugerman Member

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    I shoot a 300gr bullet in my 45-70 at about 1950 fps it does a real good job on deer and you can eat right up to the hole (little meat damage) I bet a loaded down 458 would do a similar job. Use what you got, dead is dead, no such thing as over dead.
     
  19. mr.trooper

    mr.trooper Member

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    Ahh, very good. I haven't reviewed my data for Trail Boss in some time, but I figured it would get you somewhere in the 1,200fps range.
     
  20. willypete

    willypete Member

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    Which 300 grain bullet? I've been wanting to try the 300 JHP from Remington on a deer, loaded to about that velocity.
     
  21. TexasPatriot.308

    TexasPatriot.308 Member

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    I prefer a larger caliber myself for deer.
     
  22. Lloyd Smale

    Lloyd Smale Member

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    ive killed exactly two deer with my old #1 458 so am far from an expert. One with a 500 grain cast bullet at about 1700 fps and one with a hornady jacketed soft point 500 grain at a max book load and neither tore up a thing and killed with no muss or fuss. About the same effect as doing the same with a 4570. Why do it? because i had the gun and didnt forsee me shooting any elephants with it in the near future!
     
  23. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    If you 'roll your own' ammo, sure.

    If full-house factory .458Mag ammo is all that you have....uhhhmmm maybe not
     
  24. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    You can shoot and clean the deer at the same time. (LOL)

    Seriously, I'd be less concerned about the impact on the game (I'm sure the gun will do the job and then some) but rather I'd ask, - why make your shoulder take an unnecessary beating?

    I have a friend who used to hunt groundhogs with a .300 Win. Magnum. He now, in his older age, looks back on this decision with regret.

    But, if you are OK with it - enjoy!!!
     
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