45ACP Small Primers failed to cycle

[RadBear]

I put together a ladder of 185 grain rounds ranging from 4.4 to 5.0 grains of WIN 231. A buddy gave me some Remington 1 1/2 primers so I figured I'd give those a shot with some small primer cases I got in a lot of once fired brass. I fired rounds in my Glock 36 and Colt Gold Cup. There was a satisfying bang, a hole appeared in the target where it was supposed to, but neither pistol ejected the spent casing. I had to manually cycle the action. I fired some 230 grain large primer rounds I assembled with 5.6 grains of WIN 231 and both pistols worked fine. Am I correct in assuming I need to use a different primer like the Remington 5 1/2 to ensure proper cycling? Or do I need to increase or change the powder?

 

[fxvr5]

Am I correct in assuming I need to use a different primer like the Remington 5 1/2 to ensure proper cycling?

No.

Or do I need to increase or change the powder?

Yes.

 

[cfullgraf]

Or the recoil spring is too strong, most probably in the Glock for sure.

If the Gold Cup is relatively new like mine, it came with two recoil springs, one for standard, 230 RN ammunition and the other for target level ammunition.

 

[FROGO207]

I have tried the small and large primers head to head with identical loads otherwise. They acted the same. Some say there is a small velocity difference but shootong them from 7 diffetent pistols there is no practical difference in mine. Take it how you may but work the small primers up to the same level andI bet they all work the same +/- 50 FPS.

 

[lordpaxman]

Welcome to THR! You didn’t mention what bullet types you have, but Hodgdon online for 185 gr JSWC is 5.0-5.9 gr 231 at 1.135”. I agree with @FROGO207 , I’ve run both small and large primers in .45 and don’t see any appreciable difference in velocity with all other components being equal. Check the online published data, and, let us know what bullet type and where you got your data?
your 230gr bullets with 5.6gr of 231 seems a bit high. Online shows a lower maximum load, be safe. Good luck.

 

[lowcountry308]

Ive been using 5.2 gr win231 with 230 cprn bullet and Remington 1 1/2’s with no problem.

Stock Ruger SR1911

 

[hanno]

I have tried the small and large primers head to head with identical loads otherwise. They acted the same.

That has been my experience also.

 

[v8stang289]

That's a light powder load for 185gn bullets. 5-5.9 should be the charge range. Definitely not a primer issue. In this case if the rounds fired it's doing it's job,

 

[reddog81]

Generally you use more powder with light bullets, not less.

 

[RadBear]

Generally you use more powder with light bullets, not less.

That's counterintuitive but after my experience today I can believe it.

 

[fxvr5]

That's counterintuitive but after my experience today I can believe it.

Look at the data for different bullet weights in a loading manual. There's the evidence.

 

[11MikeMike]

You likely need to use more of the magical fire dust. I am acquainted with the the condition that you describe ( when working up a 9mm load with IMR Blue before there was ANY published pistol load data.) There still is no data from Hogdon. Worked up slow, and ended up great! Same with IMR Green and 45acp with small primer cases.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have tried the small and large primers head to head with identical loads otherwise. They acted the same. Some say there is a small velocity difference but shootong them from 7 diffetent pistols there is no practical difference in mine. Take it how you may but work the small primers up to the same level andI bet they all work the same +/- 50 FPS.

---
^^^ Yup.^^^
I bought small primer .45 cases a few months back because they were real cheap and I figured it might come in handy that SRP/SPP are interchangeable but LRP/LPP are not (same diameter - different primer cup depths). They shoot the same.

 

[Dudedog]

For me there was only a small difference in vels with SP vs LP.
I was using a mild SP S+B and WIN LPs and the diff between the two was around 20fps.
A load would have to be right on the edge for 20fps to make a difference in cycling. (but possible)
More powder as noted above (assuming you are under max charge) is the answer.
If you have a bunch loaded that won't cycle it might be possible to seat the bullet a little deeper to pick up some vel so you don't have to pull them all.
I wouldn't go crazy on seating deeper but .02 might get you there.

 

[kerreckt]

I have never experienced any difference in performance between LPP and SPP in 45acp. I treat them the same as far as powder and projectile loading. Never any problems.

 

[EMC45]

I've run both LPP and SPP under 4.5-5gr. Bullseye under a 230gr. Cast TC bullet out of both my 1911 and G36 with never a problem.

 

[ericuda]

My g36 needs a little warmer load than a 1911 to cycle with lighter bullets and definitely needs a firm grip.

 

[mdi]

I don't use any bullets under 200 gr. And even with the 200 gr. small primed, starting loads, none have failed to cycle in my 3, 45 ACP guns. Maybe there isn't enough pressure generated with the 185 gr bullet? I am running low on my large pistol primers (under 2k) so I bought 300 more small primed 45 ACP brass...

 

[jag22]

Has nothing to do with the primer, just a way light powder charge. Did you find that in a manual? Most everyone agrees, use your usual powder load, no need to change anything.

 

[milsurpguy]

If memory serves 4.5gr of 231 wouldn't cycle my 1911 reliably even with a 230gr bullet.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If memory serves 4.5gr of 231 wouldn't cycle my 1911 reliably even with a 230gr bullet.

It works with my 1911 with a full 16lb recoil spring...4.5grs 231 under a 230gr Hi-Tek coated RN bullet ignited by a CCI SPP. The same load also cycles through my stock Glock G30

 

[Bcwitt]

Your description indicates too light a charge. Always work up when using different components.

 

[joneb]

I would load 185 gr Nosler JHP with 6.2-6.5gr of W-231 with good results for my 1911 pistols. I would use F-150, CCI 300 or WLP primers.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I’d say little to no chance it’s a primer issue lest neither Speer, Blazer, Federal, Remington, nor whoever else would sell factory ammo using SPP.
Edit: actually, I just checked and I do have hundreds of all but Remington 45ACP small pockets. So, I won’t swear they use them but think I’ve seen them. I also have exactly ONE FC small pocket 45ACP.

 

[loadedround]

Run several magazines of factory ammo through your pistol to determime where the problem is before starting to change components and or springs.