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5.7x28 carbine

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by GunTech, Sep 24, 2009.

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  1. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    The thread on the 5.7 varmint exterminator got me thinking.

    What about a 5.7 semi-auto carbine built along the lines of the M1 Carbine, simple blowback, and using FiveseveN pistol magazines? It would actually be an easier project to build a simple blowback rifle versus a tunbolt from scratch. You could use a lot of Carbine parts if you wanted to make it easy.

    Just spitballing here. Any thoughts?
     
  2. ECVMatt

    ECVMatt Member

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    That sounds like a lot of fun to me. I like simple. Pistol mags are easy to get.

    I like it.

    Matt
     
  3. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Sometime in the 60's someone made a version of the M1 in a wildcat 5.7 cartridge. Not sure how many were made, or what the concept was though.
     
  4. Float Pilot

    Float Pilot Member

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    The MMJ 5.7mm or (5.7mm Johnson) or (22 Spitfire) or 5.7mm Spitfire.

    was introduced in 1963 for the Johnson Guns, Inc. alteration of the U.S. M1 Carbine. This was a clip fed semi-auto with a folding stock advertised as a survival gun. Production was later undertaken in limited numbers by Plainfield in New Jersey. This package was designed by Melvin M. Johnson, author, Marine colonel, and the man responsible for the Johnson semi-auto rifle and light machinegun of WWII fame.

    It is a 30 carbine round necked down to 22 caliber. It is better than the 5.7x28mm.



    MMJ 5.7mm (22Spitfire) Reloading Data
    Bullet (grs.) Powder / (grs.)..............................MVel .....ME
    40 HP ............ IMR 4227 / 14.0..........................2850 ....720
    40 HP .............. 2400 / 12.0...............................3000.....795
    50 HP........... IMR 4198 / 14.0............................2700.....810
     
  5. zhyla

    zhyla Member

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    Wouldn't it be easier to slap a 5.7x28mm upper on a AR-15 lower?
     
  6. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    If I'm on the same page as Gun Tech, I'd say we're looking for something slimmer and lighter than the AR to fire such a tiny round. Basically, a gun the size of a Marlin 60 or so.
     
  7. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Exactly. Simple blowback carbine with a 16-18 inch barrel, using pistol magazines. I actually spoke to a manufacturer/gunsmith friend who's intrigued. We are talking about a proof of concept rifle using a combination of M1 carbine and Ruger PC9 parts, with a new receiver, barrel and mag well. Since he used to make 9mm carbines and SMGs, he has a little experience.

    The main question is would there be any interest, and could it be done cheaply enough and still maintain decent quality. I am thinking it should retail for under $500. Also, would FN sell us magazines?

    Just musings right now, but the project looks very doable.
    I am going to play with solidworks and see what I can come up with.
     
  8. Wachtelhund

    Wachtelhund Member

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    I would be interested. I also have been looking at this round and the 5mm rem magnum converted to centerfire for a semi-auto blow back.
    I have a H&K 300 .22 mag. Its is an expensive gun and shoots excellent, but its design is very simple. The trigger group has most of the working mechcanizism. It has a very heavy solid round bolt with little machining, 1 pound or more. Looks simple enough that a machinist could duplicate it with the firing pin in the center for a centerfire round.
    Action springs are all in a removable trigger group. The trigger and main action both use double springs which look similar to those in a over and under or double barrel shotgun, allowing them to fit in the compact trigger unit.
    Two hooked arms and the hammer from the trigger group stick up and catch and slow the bolt upon firing. The arms compress the main action springs and the rearward bolt movement cocks the hammer. The buffer is similar to a Ruger 10/22 mag but with better construction.
    Push a button at the back of the trigger guard and the whole trigger group comes out for safe separate storage. The back of the action has a spring steel metal cap. Push this up and it comes off, remove the bolt stop buffer pin and the buffer and bolt slide out from the back. Allowing cleaning without removing the stock.
    If only this was not an expensive gun in mint condition??

    Dave Pepe
    [email protected]
     
  9. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    FN strikes me as an extremely pragmatic manufacturer (FNAR, FNP come to mind, high-performance, low-gloss) and I can't picture them turning down the oportunity to sell more magazines for their own firearms, and gin up more interest and more uses for a near-proprietary round of their own design. The more people shooting any 5.7x28mm, the more people who might take the leap and buy a Five-seveN or PS-90 who wouldn't otherwise. And more guns shooting that round, the more likely that it will last and the longer they can expect to sell their 5.7mm firearms.



    And the idea sounds pretty neat, I'd definitely check one out.
     
  10. TOU

    TOU Member

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    Any updates?
     
  11. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Just get a flat top FN PS90. No need to reinvent the wheel.
     
  12. 1911crazy

    1911crazy Member

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    this round is in my opinion a novelty at best.and all of the prices I've seen for the PS90 were in the $ 1400-1500 range it might be cheaper to just build it off an old carbine like he suggested. it would look cooler than the FN if nothing else
     
  13. terrell48

    terrell48 Member

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    5.7x28 response

    The last posting on this forum has been a long time back so not sure if anyone still reads this, I just saw a cartridge of this caliber as someone had purchased an FN pistol that shoots it. I thought that looks like it would make a great lil varmint cartridge in a rifle or carbine so I searched the internet to see what was out there and found this forum.
    In reading it appears this cartridge was developed from a 30 carbine case. Well guess what abour 18 or 20 years ago I purchased a M-1 Carbine that had been converted to a 5.7 Johnson cartridge that I was told was basically a wildcat. I bought the carbine along with a set of loading dies. I kept that rifle about 4 years and it was a great lil rifle. I was not equipped at the time to load the cartridges but had my friend load them for me and it was a very accurate cartridge and rifle shooting sub MOA groups, I had it scoped but do not remember what type of scope. I have always regreted selling it even though I shgot it minimally.
    So my point is if this 5.7x28 is the same cartridge the load data was in books under 5.7 Johnson and was a terrific shooter and thge carbine action and rifle was just rebarreled and chambered to fit. In those days I also saw a carbine chambered in a 357 mag pistol cartridge.
     
  14. epijunkie67

    epijunkie67 Member

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    I have asked for a carbine rifle shooting the FN57 cartridge for several years. I have the pistol as well as the PS90 rifle. The rifle uses a top loading magazine that is bulky and awkward and an integrated sight system that leaves much to be desired.

    A simple, thin, light carbine rifle using the pistol magazine would be a wonderful thing however. They hold 20 rounds and someone is making aftermarket 30 round mags now.

    I just think it would be a really fun rifle that might also be useful in a general purpose ranch rifle role.
     
  15. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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  16. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Gah, yet another AR looking rifle. Can't someone be original for a change?
     
  17. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    It can take some AR furniture but it's far from an AR 15 other then that. It may share appearances but it's original.
     
  18. dubya450

    dubya450 Member

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    I'd really like to see a non AR looking 5.7 rifle/carbine as well before I have to spend my $ on an UGLY ps90.... I really love the 5.7x28 and it'd make an awesome critter rifle. I like it so much I actually just bought a second Five-seveN lol. I bought my first one a week and a half ago, found a smoking deal on an all black Five-seveN ($800!!) So i had to snatch it up.
     
  19. TOU

    TOU Member

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    First on the Five-Seven for $800...please let me know if you know where another is as I am on the prowl for one after recently acquiring a PS90.

    On that last note...the PS90's are definitely odd to look at...at first. But...this is a purpose built rifle/carbine from the ground up. I will tell you the more you handle one the more you will likely realize this little carbine is AWESOME for its intended purposes! And then there is the facts that you can carry around 100rds on it's person...it fits anywhere, is surprisingly accurate and lethal to 200 yards and is ultra reliable. And again...the ergonomics are surprising once you handle one a bunch. Anyway, I just can't find anything like it including my Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm (which I love almost as much after buying it on a whim). The funny thing is I'm not usually much of black rifle kind of a guy but I LOVE it and it surprisingly has really grown on me GREATLY! So much so that I have decided that I'm going to make it my first SBR and likely even add a suppressor at the same time. The SBR is what it was always what a PS90 was designed & intended to be. (I may eve go ahead and SBR the Storm at the same time for fun as the paper work & wait is almost identical. ;))

    Bottom line is I would advise you to shoot a mag or two out of one before you make any final judgments. (To me the only down side is their initial cost.) I think maybe with a Five-Seven with two spare 30 round magazines...AND the 100 rounds loaded up on the PS90 you might have the most perfect pistol-carbine combo ever made. My only regret is that I can't get one in in FA. LOL :D
     
  20. TOU

    TOU Member

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    Interesting...but I think I was going along these lines I would just go for the 5.7x28 uppers for an AR and use the plentiful & cheap 50 round PS90 magazines...even barring cost. JMHO
     
  21. dastardly-D

    dastardly-D Member

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    Carbine

    ...........I'd still like to see a M-1 carbine in available 22 mag ? A great truck gun,ground hog,coyote,and easy to handle anti scumbag defender !
     
  22. 7.62 Nato

    7.62 Nato Member

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    Ruger had the 10/22 MAG. But I believe it was discontinued. I don't know if it was because of problems, or lack of sales. Maybe with enough current interest in 22 mags, they could bring it back.
     
  23. jason41987

    jason41987 member

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    if you want real punch in a carbine... try a .357 magnum, rimless made from .223 brass, neck it down to .30 or .22 cal (.22 might be better) and use .22 caliber bullets... you will have more than double the energy a 5.7x28 can do
     
  24. TOU

    TOU Member

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    If you just HAVE to have a semi-auto 22 WMR (of which the 5.7x28 PS90 is a TOTALLY different animal) I would have a look at the moderately priced high quality CZ 512 in 22 WMR...just saying.
     
  25. 7.62 Nato

    7.62 Nato Member

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    Not really looking for one myself. But if I was I might look at the carbine version of the PMR30. That is if MI would trust us to have SBRs (by MI OAL requirement of 30" minimum with stock collapsed). I was just a little late on two seperate tube feed Winchester .22 mag pumps.

    Sorry for the OT sidetrack.
     
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