5.7x28 for defensive carry

[Crawfish1]

From the accounts of what happened during the Fort Hood tragedy the 5.7 does not sound very anemic to me by any means. Excerpts from the 2009 incident report below.

"Base civilian police Sergeant Kimberly Munley, who had rushed to the scene in her patrol car, encountered Hasan in the area outside the Soldier Readiness Processing Center.[33] Hasan fired at Munley, who exchanged shots with him using her 9mm M9 pistol. Munley's hand was hit by shrapnel when one of Hasan's bullets struck a nearby rain gutter, and then two bullets struck Munley: the first bullet hit her thigh, and the second hit her knee.[20][30] As she began to fall from the first bullet, the second bullet struck her femur, shattering it and knocking her to the ground.


I am venturing to guess it would stop anyone not wearing body armor in a short time . Does the 5.7 shoot magic bullets.... No, but neither does anything else.

 

[C0untZer0]

i cant think of a single instance in this reality where youre actually going to win a claim of self defense shooting at people 150 yards away

CCL present when an active shooter begins killing people in a mall. It doesn't matter that the CCL takes the shot from 150 yards, no charges would be brought and no jury would convict if a CCL were charged.

Its not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[golden]

FiveseveN has a flaw

A coworker bought a 5.7 for his wife who is recoil adverse due to arthritis. The pistol works like a 1911 and does not have a double action or GLOCK style "safe action" trigger.

As a result, she cannot use it. Handling the safety is out and she cannot rack the slide.

They ended up using his SIG 232 for her.

I will stick with a 9m.m. which has many versions of Double Action or GLOCK style trigger for myself. I have lots of ammo that has worked well for my agency.

Jim

 

[justin22885]

why do people base their delusions about the five seven on the fort hood massacre?.. one person firing multiple rounds into defenseless, unarmed people seemingly requiring multiple shots per person actually killed does not equate to a good self defense round where you probably wont have the luxury to be up against unarmed assailants trying to survive... when theyre coming at you with a weapon, you dont have the time to put really small holes into them hoping for perfect shot placement in a time of high levels of adrenaline as you kindly wait for them to bleed to death

45 people were shot at fort hood, the majority of which taking multiple, if not many gunshots to kill, and only 13 fatalities.. that actually speaks to its piss poor ballistics than adds any kind of evidence that its suitable for anything but shooting mice.. if the 5.7x28 out of a five seven pistol wasnt COMPLETE crap, a lot more than 13 would have been killed

 

[Shawn Dodson]

5.7x28 = .22 Magnum performance.

 

[Rodentman]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it "complete crap."

 

[justin22885]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it "complete crap."

of course not, i quite simply dont like it BECAUSE its a complete crap.. its a glorified, overpriced mouse gun and its quite irresponsible to try to argue for it being better than this to potential new shooters who may wander on these boards, read this thread and actually get the idea that its something more than it is.. this isnt a video game where most fans of this pistol seem to get the idea its better than it is.. its real life, and in real life the 5.7x28 is grossly inferior to a 9mm

 

[yugorpk]

Only problem I have with the 5.7 is that ammo isn't available from at least two of the Big Three ammunition manufacturers. If Federal and Winchester started making 5.7 ammo, it might be worth it.

Federals American Eagle brand of 5.7X28 comes in 50 round boxes and can be had for $14 a box which is cheaper than you can find most 5.56. Just bought 2000 rounds myself. Its also fully reloadable unlike the FN lacquered brass.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/12450/

 

[Zerodefect]

why do people base their delusions about the five seven on the fort hood massacre?.. one person firing multiple rounds into defenseless, unarmed people seemingly requiring multiple shots per person actually killed does not equate to a good self defense round where you probably wont have the luxury to be up against unarmed assailants trying to survive... when theyre coming at you with a weapon, you dont have the time to put really small holes into them hoping for perfect shot placement in a time of high levels of adrenaline as you kindly wait for them to bleed to death

45 people were shot at fort hood, the majority of which taking multiple, if not many gunshots to kill, and only 13 fatalities.. that actually speaks to its piss poor ballistics than adds any kind of evidence that its suitable for anything but shooting mice.. if the 5.7x28 out of a five seven pistol wasnt COMPLETE crap, a lot more than 13 would have been killed

You just described all pistol rounds. Fort Hood was typical results for a pistol.

 

[Rodentman]

« Its also fully reloadable unlike the FN lacquered brass.»

I've reloaded FN brass for years with not a single problem.

I wouldn't argue that the 5.7 would be the best choice for SD, but you can neutralize a threat with everything from a 22 to a 500. If you think the 5.7 is a pissant round please post a video when you volunteer to be shot by one.

The first 3 words of post 75 sums it up quite nicely.

 

[eldon519]

At the Aurora theater shooting, 70 people were hit by gunfire, and of those 12 died. The shooter was using .223/5.56, 12-gauge, and .40S&W.

 

[C0untZer0]

Does anyone have a link to the Nidal Hussein Fort Hood shooting which gives a breakdown of where people were shot, how many times, etc ?

I know it seems macabre, but people reference the Ft Hood shooting and come to different conclusions about it, I have been unable to find a detailed breakdown of the incident the way the 1986 Miami Shootout has been documented in detail.

 

[gearhead]

Does anyone have a link to the Nidal Hussein Fort Hood shooting which gives a breakdown of where people were shot, how many times, etc ?

I know it seems macabre, but people reference the Ft Hood shooting and come to different conclusions about it, I have been unable to find a detailed breakdown of the incident the way the 1986 Miami Shootout has been documented in detail.

I have seen such a breakdown but I don't have the link saved. I recall that my impression was that most hits were below the belt, which would be consistent with ugly, debilitating wounds that had a decent likelihood of not being fatal with prompt treatment.

 

[eldon519]

The first post in this thread details the injuries from Ft. Hood.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/87304_.html

 

[barnbwt]

Aren't like 90% of pistol shots nonlethal in practice, anyway?

I can sure tell that antipathy for the round is much more poorly supported than the tempered support. Yup, 5.7 is just like 25acp, seeing as it has more powder, more bullet, and about four times the pressure (and like 3x the velocity)

TCB

 

[Zerodefect]

The first post in this thread details the injuries from Ft. Hood.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/87304_.html

Sounds like the round works fine.

The people that survived with a COM hit had a collapsed lung or nasty intestine trauma. The rest of the survivors had arm/leg hits.

 

[C0untZer0]

A lot of shattered bones too.

 

[justin22885]

Aren't like 90% of pistol shots nonlethal in practice, anyway?

I can sure tell that antipathy for the round is much more poorly supported than the tempered support. Yup, 5.7 is just like 25acp, seeing as it has more powder, more bullet, and about four times the pressure (and like 3x the velocity)

TCB

no, i said it was like 22 win mag which has about the same bullet weight and muzzle energy

 

[yugorpk]

Except that the 22 win mag is not reloadable , cannot be loaded subsonic , and cannot be custom tailored to whatever bullet weight and powder charge you want to run. The 5.7 can be everything from 900 subsonic to armor piercing to 2800 FPS depending on bullet weight and powder charge. Its not the 5.56 but the 5.56 won't fit in a real pistol. Its not a 9mm+P either . It is what it is and the good thing is you are allowed to own more than one caliber and one gun. Take advantage of that.

 

[Plastikosmd]

^ Justin, not arguing with you but I just don't see how the two are that close. I got plenty of wmr's, shot a couple 5.7's. The 5.7 was quite a bit more impressive. Yes they are both "small" rounds in the end. The stats that I am familiar with show similar stats, but barrel lengths are way different. Even the, often wrong, Wikipedia has stats of the 5.7 out of a 10" or so bbl vs rifle length 24". Picking 30-31g and saying the velocity is the same but not accounting for a 14" off the barrel length difference is not so close for me. My pmr is similar in size to a five-seven but I have never gotten close to +\-2100fps ( and Yugopk I roll my own wmr, tho not practical!)

 

[Panzerschwein]

From the same handgun barrel length, 5.7 is FAR more powerful than .22 magnum.

 

[High desert]

I think the following criteria matter when choosing a gun/cartridge

You can shoot it.(better 5 hits than 20 misses)

Relatively cheap and available(so you actually train)

Some sort of stopping power.

I carry a Glock 21. I can't shoot other glocks worth a crap but I can shoot that one. I like .45, it's got good stopping power. Plus it's 13+1.
And I can conceal it even with my TLR1.

 

[barnbwt]

22wmr has a max pressure of 24ksi. 5.7 runs more than double that with more case volume. Performance is identical for the same bullet weight, though.

Doesn't seem to add up, does it?

By wiki, 22wmr gets a 30gr pill going 2300 from a 2ft barrel. Funny, that's only 10% less for the ~30gr duty rounds...from the pistol.

The lesson from the MAC gel tests, to me, is that the ammo is loaded far below what SAMMI standards are, for it to be comparable to 22mag in either velocity or trauma. That, or the 22wmr ammo in his test was unusually hot (esp since Kel Tec's website says muzzle velocity if a mere 1200fps for 22wmr, but he got over 1500). Considering the enormous political pressure on FNH every step of the way with the gun, I think the ammo may be getting dumbed down (by pressure or bullet choice). That, or the gel was poorly calibtated or a poor medium for demonstrating these small/fast rounds.

TCB

 

[Zerodefect]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux9YedhyTo0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RTJZI-UXNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rDhcId_e9A

 

[M-Cameron]

ummmm.....the 5.7 has FAR more muzzle energy that a .22wmr........approximately 2x the energy as a matter of fact.

the 5.7 has approximately the same muzzle energy as a .38special........now a .38 is not the most powerful round in the world, but i dont think anyone here doubts its effectiveness.

F = 1/2 M (V*V).

the velocity of the projectile is FAR more important to the energy than the bullet weight is.

sure, the bullet may only weight 30gr.....but its being thrown at over 2,000FPS.......thats nearly 400 ftlbs of energy.