7mm-08 vs 7x57

[Shadow 7D]

As some one has said
'there is VERY little new, just lots of reinventing....'
I don't really see the reason for some super short...... magnum
That said, there is also the rounds that are trying to push the most out of a platform like all the calibers that snap on an AR lower....

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Beautiful gun: good note. Thanks RWDale.

Greg

 

[wlewisiii]

I have owned both; I kept the 7x57. The reasons are all the same as upthread - history, nostalgia, a nice old Model 93 that I enjoy shooting despite Bubba's best efforts, easier to reload 175's for it.

My current project rifle is a 7x57 Scout rifle based on a VZ24 action. 19" barrel. I expect it will be handy in the northern Wisconsin woods.

 

[valnar]

Seems to be an easy question to answer.

Do you own any older 7x57 Mauser guns? If not, buy a 7mm-08.

 

[tahoe2]

I have two 7x57 Spanish mausers, the cartridge is old and so are my guns, I stick to the lower pressures that they were designed for. However when loaded to higher pressures in a modern action I believe the old round surpasses the 7-08, especially with the larger bullets ie; 154, 162, & 175 grns. Of course this is just my opinion and I haven't researched it to back up my statements, but I'll stick to the low pressure 7x57 rounds for deer and use my 8x57 for elk. As long as the shots are placed where they need to be, they will do their job !!

 

[morcey2]

Depending on what source you read 7x57 or 7.65 Mauser were the very first rounds to feature the ubiquitous .473" case head.

The case that o6, 270,300,308 are all based on

That would be the 8x57J mauser. Pre-dates both the 7x57 and 7.65x53. (all of which are great rounds.)

I have a 7x57 mexican mauser which I'm very happy with. I don't think there's enough of a difference in most situations between 7x57 and 7-08 to worry about. If you handload and have a good solid rifle, the edge in most cases will go to the 7x57.

Matt

 

[Clark]

When I compare them, the potential difference is only about 54 fps or standing 33 yards closer.


Holding constant:
65 kpsi*
26" barrel in 7mm
Hornady 7MM .284 DIA 162GR BIG GAME POLY CARB TIP 28452 bullets

Comparing cartridge performance with Quickload and Quicktarget at close to optimum powder choice and 65kpsi:
7mmT/CU ........................26.1 gr H335 2330 fps -471 yards
7-30 Waters ........................30 gr W748 2456 fps -395 yards
7mmBR ...........................31.2 gr W748 2510 fps -360 yards
7mm IHMSA .......................40.2 gr Re17 2704 fps -247 yards
7mm-08 .......................40.6 gr IMR4895 2789 fps -198 yards
7mm-08AckleyImproved .........43.6 gr Re15 2833 fps -171 yards
7x57mm ...........................44.6 gr Re15 2843 fps -165 yards
7x57mmAckleyImproved .........46.4 gr Re15 2873 fps -150 yards
284Win .........................50.0 gr IMR4350 2890 fps -172 yards
280Rem ............................53.5 gr H414 2961 fps -152 yards
7mm Rem short action ultra mag 55.5 gr Re17 3015 fps -73 yards
280RemAckleyImproved ........57 gr IMR4350 3019 fps -71 yards
7mmRemMag ......................68.2 gr Re22 3129 fps -15 yards
7mmRem ultra mag ............83.3 gr IMR7828 3130 fps -15 yards
7mmWeathMag ....................71.8 gr Re22 3170 fps +7 yards
7mmSTW .............82.2 gr Ramshot Magnum 3158 fps 0 yards

*The 7mm IHMSA, 7mm-08, 7mm-08AckleyImproved, 7x57mm, 7x57mmAckleyImproved, 280Rem, and 280RemAckleyImproved have 1889 Mauser case heads [7.65x53mm parent] with large Boxer primer pockets and 65,000 psi is a reasonable max pressure for handloads.
*The 7mmBR 1889 Mauser case heads [7.65x53mm parent, 6mmBR parent] with small Boxer primer pockets and could have gone to 80,000 psi:
*The 7mmRemMag, 7mmWeathMag, and 7mmSTW have a 1912 H&H case head [375 H&H parent] and could have gone to 70,000 psi.
*The 7mmTCU has a 1950 Rem case head [.222 Parent] with small Boxer primer and could have gone to 75,000 psi
*7x30 Waters has a Winchester 1895 case head [ 30-30 parent] and could have gone to 70,000 psi.
*The 284 has a Winchester 1954 case head [284 parent], and possibly should not go more than 56,000 psi.

 

[DM~]

I shoot a 7x57 with mostly with 173 gr. SPCE bullets when shooting factory loads, it can shoot through just about anything in North America, and it does it with very little recoil/noise/muzzle blast. It is significantly better than a 7mm-08 with heavy bullets which is what I prefer. The 162 SST and Barnes 175's are really fine hunting bullets for those of us that reload.

Huh???? I have the Nosler reloading manual #6 in my hands,

Top loads with 160 grain bullets,

7mm mauser 2686 fps
7-08 Rem. 2,780 fps

Top loads with 175 grain bullets,

7mm mauser 2574 fps
7-08 Rem. 2623 fps

As i see it, that's pretty much a wash, with the 7-08 Rem. having the advantage.

DM

 

[Boxhead]

My 13 year old son is pretty fond of the 7x57 pushing the 160 hr NAB in his lousy old long action Walther Mauser with an archaic 1.5-5X scope, in junk Weaver mounts no less.

 

[helotaxi]

I am fairly certain that the 300 Savage gave birth to the 308, not the 30-o6. The 308 then replaced the 'o6. Maybe that's what you meant by "gave rise"?

While the .300 Savage was designed to duplicate .30-06 performance (given, it was the rather anemic military load with dated powder technology) in a shorter rifle, so basically the same goal as the .308, and uses the same case head diameter, the .308 was developed from the .30-06. The .300 Savage might have been an "inspiration" for the .308 but the case came from the .30-06.

 

[RPRNY]

Well, there you go Boxhead. Clearly he can't hit anything with all that junk and that old cartridge.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but when it comes to bolt-action rifles for big game, I've never understood the true benefit of a short action, other than being able to say how wonderfully efficient one's rifle is.

I have two short actions and a long action. I prefer the short actions for hunting because they're so compact and light and quick to the shoulder and don't bang in to stuff in a box blind, especially the little 20" Remington M7. That little M7 is light for all day spot and stalk and 3/4 MOA accurate for making the actual shot, too. Very versatile rifle in .308 Winchester. I'm not sure that has more'n an inch to do with the action length, just that short actions tend to be handier rifles. I won't apologize for liking a short action rifle, though, even if it has little to do with the action length. If I were to get to go on a New Mexico elk hunt today, I'd probably take that little M7 and use the Savage 7mm Rem Mag as a back up. I'm gettin' too old to lug that thing around.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

With factroy loads the 7-08 is the better round, but with good handloads the 7X57 will still outperform it

This is true, but keep in mind, a lot of those old military Mausers aren't made for the pressures of todays rounds. That's why factory ammo for the 7x57 has a reputation for being rather anemic. Don't get me wrong, even those are dandy for deer, but to ramp up the 7x57 to outperform the 7mm-08, you need a modern action for safety's sake.
At least that's what I've read on the internet.

 

[MCgunner]

Many of the old Mausers can handle the pressure, it's just that they don't have the gas handling capabilities if a case blows. The gas will come back in your face. SO, they load down in reverence to this at the factories. It's not the strength of the action, just safety in design.

If you get a Mauser 98 in 7x57, load that sucker to modern levels and live happy!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Yes, I would imagine a 98 Mauser with the 3 lugs would handle just about anything you could throw at it.

 

[Clark]

DM~
As i see it, that's pretty much a wash, with the 7-08 Rem. having the advantage.
DM

The "reloading manuals" are not testing them at the same pressure.
But that is not as big an out of control variable as the difference is like comparing the chocolate chip cookie recipe on the chocolate chip bag to the chocolate chip cookie recipe in Betty Crocker's cook book.

 

[targetshooter22]

So it's apples to oranges between the two. My Mauser 95 in 7x57 shoots really well and is very accurate, but that pre-98 action is not to be pushed, so published loads only for me.

Others in the family have 7mm-08's, one Ruger that is accurate as hot as you will take it and one Remington 788 that will lock up like a bank vault with the Ruger loads, but will shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards with softer loads.

Maybe each gun really is different, and that plus the ability of the shooter is the real difference? In that case, pick what you like to think about, shoot it, and enjoy.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

My Mauser 95 in 7x57 shoots really well and is very accurate, but that pre-98 action is not to be pushed, so published loads only for me.

Don't let that get you down. If you're hunting whitetails, those published loads are more than enough. The 7x57 is very underrated IMO. My dad just got an old 95 Mauser at a gun show for $90 and we're gonna bubba it up. I can't wait.

 

[morcey2]

My dad just got an old 95 Mauser at a gun show for $90 and we're gonna bubba it up. I can't wait.

HEATHEN!!!! Burn him!!

Ok. not really. I'd love to find a 95 mauser for that. Chilean?

Matt

 

[j1]

Whether you call them pancakes or flapjacks. They both taste the same.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Ok. not really. I'd love to find a 95 mauser for that. Chilean?

I believe so. It shoots pretty good with the military sights from 50 yds. Can't wait to get it drilled and tapped and work up a good load for it.

 

[targetshooter22]

My 95 is definitely "Modelo Chileano" but has German markings too. It's already been "Bubba'd Up" with a mannlicher style full stock, magazine drop plate, and the safety on the bolt altered to fit with a scope. I'm sure it was re-blued before I bought it too; stepped military barrel with a very shiny finish. Haven't taken it afield in a long time now, but always seemed to work well at the range.

 

[morcey2]

I think all of the Chilean 1895s were German-made, either Lowes or DWM. I'm still looking for one.

 

[ak257]

[/IMG]

I own and load for both. The 7x57's seem to shoot the 175's better than the 08. Otherwise it's a toss-up.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Welcome AK257...I see you are a newbe to THR, but not to guns!!!
Greg