9mm gets no respect...why?

[rl2669]

I know that in general the 9mm parabellum cartridge is controversial as a viable self defense calibre. Many on this forum and elsewhere prefer the 45 ACP and will perhaps settle for the 40 S&W. In fact, many times I feel like the 9mm is considered a barely adequate

Help me understand one thing though - the 357 magnum is near the top of everyone's list as a potent manstopper. And the 9x19 is almost exactly the same calibre (.356), and with proper loading (e.g. +p or +p+) should be comparable in velocity to the 357 mag. Assuming that the projectile designs are comparable, it seems that 9mm should be a good load for self defense.

Comments?

 

[XD9WBT]

If you feel that the 9mm has no stopping power I invite you to get one of your buds to shoot you in the chest at from point blank to 10 yds. It will kill you just as fast as the others. Old boring argument.

 

[RedneckCopsWife]

I thought having a 9MM wouldn't be that great as I love the Glock. But I was wrong. I couldn't believe how well it shot for the first time and how accurate it was. I still like my G27 but my Springfield is amazing!

 

[heavyshooter]

I think the bad reputation is based on the poor performance of the full metal jacket 9mm. The round will go through the target without transfering much energy; making it a very poor self defense round. But the advances in bullet tech has resulted in a viable self defense round. An expanding 9mm is pretty effective. However, the advances have been applied to the bullets that start with "4" as well. Which keeps the 9mm behind the curve. Essentially, the thing that made the 9mm good has made the .45 acp great. So we still shun the 9mm in spite of the fact that it has more than adequate stopping power. This is my guess. Maybe someone will repair my post.

 

[Old Fuff]

You have to understand that in this country many of our males are... well... very macho. To them the ideal pocket gun is an aluminum & plastic Ruger Alaskan, chambered in .454 Casull.

The only justifiable reason to carry a .45 is because they don't make a .50, or better yet, a .55 ACP.

If anyone is caught with anything smaller they are automatically dead, and if it's a 9mm they're even deader.

The only acceptable excuse for carrying a 9mm is if it has a magazine capacity of over 25 rounds. That way you can do double, triple and quadruple taps without having to reload. It’s just like old B-grade western movies, except better.

The problem with the .357 Magnum is that it’s a revolver cartridge, normally used in guns that only hold 5 or 6 rounds, although there are exceptions.

One advantage of the 9mm is that usually you can find inexpensive military surplus ammunition to plink and play with. That’s enough to interest me, but frankly – I don’t get into near as many gunfights as some of our members seem to.

 

[Youngster]

As well as marginal FMJ/nonexpanded performance the 9mm seems to have the highest percentage of marginal JHP loads available out of any of the duty calibers.

 

[Boba Fett]

I love the 9mm, but I don't carry it. I carry 45. But that isn't to say that you should feel under gunned if you don't.

My reason for carrying JHP 45 is because if the 45 doesn't expand, it is still a 45. If the 9mm JHP doesn't expand, it is 9mm and, as heavyshooter mentioned about the FMJ 9mm, it could just go straight through.

That said, the trade off is that I don't get to carry as many rounds. Instead of the 15+ that some of the 9mm guns can carry, I'm limited to 7 in my SIG P220.

So I trade quantity of rounds for increased stopping potential. Key word there is "potential," not guarantee. None of these rounds are guaranteed instant stoppers. And as I said, I wouldn't feel like I was under gunned with a 9mm. Heck, I carry 380 in my P3AT when I'm not able to carry my P220 and I don't feel like I'd "lose the battle" simply because I wasn't carrying my 45.


Whichever round you carry, practice with it often enough to make sure you will shoot it well enough should you ever need to defend yourself.

 

[Javelin]

Got to have something to complain about and make up stories to sell gun magazines.

Seriously though, the 9mm got a bad rap due to the use of 115gr FMJ Ball ammo rounds that the military uses. Any civilian can buy SD grade JPH full power LE 9mm rounds and they are most definitely lethal.

And as far as I am concerned the 9mm is the best pistol cartridge ever made. Shooting both 124 and 147gr ammo. It can be suppressed especially well and carries enough power to be used in any environment and platform from a submachine gun, AR carbines, to pistols, subcompacts, and even revolvers. There are very few cartridges that are as diverse as the 9mm.

 

[TIMC]

My carry guns are pretty evenly split between 9mm and .45 acp. I carry one or the other depending on where I'm going and mood. I think the 9mm is just fine for defense. Reliability and ability to hit what you want is more necessary than caliber.

 

[unspellable]

Dirty little secret: NO hard ball load is a good stopper. The fabled 45 ACP is hardly any better then the 9 mm Parabellum when both are loaded with hardball. The 45 Revolver, (A cartridge oddly lost to history!) the 45 Colt, and the 30-40 Krag all proved to have disappointing performance against the Moros in the Philippines but all you ever hear about are the failures of the 38 Colt.

The 357 Magnum produces more velocity than the 9 mm Parabellum and given good expanding loads will out perform it.

Under ideal conditions with the right choice of expanding loads the 45 ACP and 9 mm Parabellum will give about equal performance. The 9 mm will be pickier about bullet choice to deliver that performance.

As a practical matter for civilians, caliber choice is more a matter of what you can conceal than horsepower. Thus I sometimes carry a 32 ACP or a 380 ACP although I would not claim either to be star performers.

And then sometimes there just isn't any justifiable reason for public opinion. Why is the .410 popular for a kid's gun when a 28 gauge will do anything a .410 will do and do it better?

 

[Floppy_D]

I know that in general the 9mm parabellum cartridge is controversial as a viable self defense calibre.

Really? It's rather popular around here. Some folks lean other directions, but that doesn't mean they don't have confidence in the 9mm. I carry 45acp, but I'm perfectly satisfied with 9mm. Me carrying a different round doesn't mean I think the others are useless.

 

[Jaws]

rl2669: "9mm gets no respect...why?"

It gets a lot more respect now, since people now pick on FN's 5.7x28mm instead.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

The 9mm I own is a WWII P38 relic, a 9mm conversion for my xd40sc and a 9mm cylinder for my 357 Blackhawk. So far the cartridge seems to work when I want it to but I'll admit I've never used it, or any other caliber, in self defense.

What amuses me here is when we're debating .357 and up the 9mm is puny and inadequate. When we're arguing .380 and below... the 9mm is a one shot show stopper.

Just saying......

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

All my self defense guns are 9mm. It is perfectly adequate provided JHP bullets are used. The .40 and .45 might be a little better, but it comes at a price, both monetary (cost of practice ammo), recoil and (in some cases) gun size.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Because many people choose their firearm based on hyped magazine articles or what is printed on the ammunition maker's box.

 

[REJones]

The 9mm has been around for a century, however it didn't really catch on in the U.S. until the 80's or so. At the time, JHP bullets were no longer a novelty but they definitely hadn't been perfected.

With all the hype surrounding the new guns, the new caliber, and the new bullet, the American shooting public was set up for a serious let down when the 9mm didn't turn out to be a nuclear tipped death machine.

The early 9mm choices were standard pressure in either 115 gr or 147 gr weights. Both have issues - an aggressively expanding 115 gr round may fail to penetrate or lose a lot of weight resulting in a failure to inflict a lethal wound. The 147 gr round may not be travelling fast enough to expand at all.

The fact is, 9mm offers more oomph than .38 Special. The .38 was "good enough" for police and civilian work for decades. So there's no reason at all that the 9mm should be considered ineffective. Inferior is a matter of personal skill, taste and your particular tactical application. . . .

 

[WardenWolf]

The 9mm lacks respect because it IS somewhat underpowered and less likely to seriously disrupt something than .40 or .45. Additionally, its primary reasons for use, low recoil and thus greater controllability, have largely been obsoleted by improvements in firearm technology.

 

[Guillermo]

if one were to avail them the use of the history of 9mm wounds you would want to carry something more punch. After all, we all know that ballistically speaking, a 9mm is better than a .380 but not as good as a .357 or a 45.

Of course we all know that shot placement is king.

My advice is carry the most potent round that you can conceal and shoot well. If it is a .22, .32 9mm or a .44 magnum, so be it.

 

[gym]

It depends on who is hyping what. In the 60's it was a snubby, everything else was just ok, 70's 9mm and 357, the Hipower was the killing machine, the 357 was so powerful it would go through all of the houses in the neighboorhood, then in the 80's the 45's made a resurgence, then the 40's in the 90's, along with the 380's being better then the 38's, now we are back to 9 and 45 again. it's the hype and advertising that like womens fashion have to keep us at the counter finding a new excuse to spend money.

 

[SJ78]

I dont think the 9mm is underpowered . With fmj it has a bad record yes .
But with good defense ammo it's just as lethal as many others . Plus it's better for combat then say a 357 . Because of it's lighter recoil . I would admit the 45 acp is probably the best defense round . But 9mm is no joke with good ammo

 

[blkbrd666]

It would have to be more than adequate because the majority of people lately seem to be carrying .380ACP...I can't find a box of .380ACP anywhere and haven't been able to in 3 months. Everything else is available.

 

[pbearperry]

The 9mm with modern +P HP bullets is def. not impotent.If the ammo folks would load a 9mm round with a 158 gr HP doing 1000 fps,I truly think that would be a great round for self defense.It may not be a Rino buster,but in the hands of a skilled marksman,it would certainly do the job.

 

[heavyshooter]

What amuses me here is when we're debating .357 and up the 9mm is puny and inadequate. When we're arguing .380 and below... the 9mm is a one shot show stopper.

Good Point!!!

 

[BCRider]

9mm is a healthy step up from the old .38Spl.

I've worked with a bunch of cops way back and the standing joke about the .38Spl was that the SOP to using the gun was to fire 6 warning shots and then throw the gun to wound. Now granted it's not THAT bad but they didn't have much faith in the Special loads and those that actually thought they may need to use their gun in self defense would load non approved +P rounds to provide a fighting chance.

 

[Boba Fett]

I noticed that a lot of people mentioned the magnum rounds.

While I do like magnum rounds (I enjoy shooting the 357 and 44) and both certainly have a good stopping ability, I hesitate to actually use them for defensive home or carry rounds.

Main reason? Well, if you use them at night, you'll potentially blind yourself so you only get one shot at the BG. Also, they are loud and if I'm defending myself, I'd prefer to be able to hear over the ringing in my ears.

This isn't just my opinion I'm tossing about, this is what our CHL instructor (the wife of a police officer and one good but seriously strict instructor) advised use to avoid. The question was asked about which caliber to use and part of her answer was to avoid the magnum rounds.