9mm gets no respect...why?

[MagnumDweeb]

The 9mm, for me the MagnumDweeb, is a round that makes a good "woman's round". I got an Arcus 94C (BHP clone in detective size) and Rossi Snub .357 Interarms production (now own the Taurus-Rossi 462) and a hundred bucks for a Ruger SBH I had bought at an estate sale for $150. I had only owned .357 and .45 ACP before.

The BHP clone pointed and shot out to twenty yards without a single problem, even single-handed. But I didn't get that felt-recoil, that tensing of muscles in my wrist, forearm, and bicep I got when I shot .44 Magnum out of a 7.5" Ruger SBH single-handed at targets at twenty yards. Or using a snub .357 to do double taps.

I sold the Arcus 94C to a cousin of mine when she got her CWP. I went two years without 9mm and only finally got back in on a combined sale from a friends Dad for Winchester 94AE and Ruger P95 for five hundred bucks (the gun shop offered him $350). So when I ordered my reloading equipment from Lee I made sure I got what I needed to reload the two thousand plus spent 9mm cartridges, Dies, 1000 cast bullets for six cents a bullet, 500 rounds of JHP for 6 cents a bullet (got them from two different guys and that's just how it worket out), a thousand CCI small pistol primers and a lb of Hogdon Titegroup.

So now I give 9mm respect, if you must absolutely make a shot at twenty yards, or fire enough rounds to possibly suppress a madman, it's better to have fifteen to twenty rounds of 9mm then only eight rounds of .45 ACP (of course I also carry my snub .357 in my pocket with me and the Ruger comes along as an extra but hopefully don't need it gun).

 

[atlanticfire]

I've shot thousands upon thousands of rounds out of my FN HP over the years have have have planty of respect for what it can do.

 

[MisterMike]

I am always surprised when someone refers to the 9mm as "underpowered".

Domestic ammunition in both chamberings has similar levels of KE.

9mm 115gr @ 1160fps = 343.6 fpe
9mm 124gr @ 1120fps = 345.4 fpe
9mm 147gr @ 1000fps = 326.4 fpe

.45 185gr @ 950fps = 370.7 fpe
.45 230gr @ 825fps = 347.6 fpe

I've often wondered about this, having seen similar comparisons in the past. Admitting that I know little about ballistics, it seems that, depending on the rounds, a 9mm will afford roughly 88% to 99% of the kinetic energy of a .45. Of course, pure kinetic energy isn't the only factor in effectiveness, but when you add in greater ammunition capacity and, at least for some of us, more accuracy, the 9mm seems to compare pretty favorably to the .45.

This isn't a knock against the proponents of the .45, or any round, but there is a tendency by some to tout the "bigger is better" approach without really considering the pros and cons. I notice that more with people who are new to shooting than with more experienced folks.

 

[Boba Fett]

What I implied was that the popularity was increasing due to its standardization as a NATO cartridge.

Ah I gotcha. NATO standardization is certainly a good cause for increased interest.

I wasn't trying to say that you were putting down the 9mm, I was just curious about 9mm firearms being purchased more or less in recent months; seeing if there was a new trend or whatnot.

 

[X-Rap]

Yea to my view people are being more practical today. It seems that some of the more exotic calibers are setting on the shelves and the common easy to feed models are in shorter supply. I have a few oddballs like the 32NAA and a 357SIG the latter was easily fixed and I have some 380 to fill in the mousegun catagory. Have you experienced a shortage of 380 in your area?
I haven't found it at WalMart for months and other more high priced sources are spotty.

 

[Claude Clay]

9mm has gotten respect from everyone who has seen mine. though honestly only one ran away-the rest muttered as they walked

 

[CoRoMo]

9mm gets no respect

Silly.
There might be .40 fans, .45acp fans, etc. but I simply don't believe that an argument even exists where 9mm is looked down upon as less than adequate for self defense. Anyone making that argument is out of their ever-loving mind. I'm skeptical that this "theory" is at all as broadly accepted as the OP suggests. Everyone who has a modicum of knowledge about weaponry would know that the 9x19 has ample stopping power.

 

[JohnnyGrey]

I carry 9mm. I'm not concerned with round to round comparisons between 9 and .45. A reasonably skilled shooter can put two 9mm slugs on target before brass even hits the ground. The extra 50 ft/lb or so isn't worth sacrificing half of my mag capacity. 9mm/.40/.45 are in the same class as far as I'm concerned, that's why the debate never ends. All three are viable carry options, but if I felt I needed more power, I'd go to 10mm, not .45.

 

[doubs43]

The fabled 45 ACP is hardly any better then the 9 mm Parabellum when both are loaded with hardball.

Not true at all. Do a little research on the US Army tests when they were deciding on a replacement for the .38 revolvers. They used live animals and human cadavers - real flesh - in their tests and the .45 ACP was far better than the 9mm. Not just a "little" but significantly better.

 

[1Texican!]

Huh?

The fabled 45 ACP is hardly any better then the 9 mm Parabellum when both are loaded with hardball.

+1 - I'm with doubs43 with reference to the above quote . . .

It simply will not stand on it's own . . . ya got any thing to back it up other than personal opinion - ?? Heck, everybody's got one of those

 

[CPshooter]

I think the bad reputation is based on the poor performance of the full metal jacket 9mm. The round will go through the target without transfering much energy; making it a very poor self defense round. But the advances in bullet tech has resulted in a viable self defense round. An expanding 9mm is pretty effective. However, the advances have been applied to the bullets that start with "4" as well. Which keeps the 9mm behind the curve. Essentially, the thing that made the 9mm good has made the .45 acp great. So we still shun the 9mm in spite of the fact that it has more than adequate stopping power. This is my guess. Maybe someone will repair my post.

Your post is accurate, but I thought I'd bring up the fact that the barrel length of the gun can possibly bring 9mm ahead of the curve. I'd take a 9mm JHP in a 3-3.5" gun over a .45 JHP without hesitation. A .45acp in a 3" barrel probably won't expand as reliably as it would in a 5" barrel, and it will suffer from extreme velocity loss (>200fps). There goes your "energy" and "energy transfer."

Also, a .357mag from a revolver with a barrel length of < 2" probably isn't any better than a 9mm out of a 3-4" barrel and I'd be willing to bet that a 9mm +P would perform better than the .357mag in some instances.

All I'm sayin' is that 9mm is perfectly capable of being a viable self-defense round.

Also, no FMJ bullet will be an effective man-stopper.

*edit* Here ya go:

 

[LightningJoe]

People aren't looking at calculated energies or bullet tracks in gelatin. They're looking at the cartridges themselves. 9mm=small. 45 Auto=big. Bigger is better.

 

[jason97496]

I do not have aend of my an opinion myself, but, everytime I see a 9mm I think of a conversation I heard 20+ years ago. A paramedic friend of my fathers was said "I lost all respect for 9mms when I saw that guys knee".

 

[searcher451]

Another caliber war -- perfect.

But why pick on the 9mm? It gets plenty of respect from me, and for a lot of good reasons, among them the relative costs of the ammo when compared with much of the other stuff on the market and the numerous must-have guns that require it: the P.38, the Walther P5 and P88, and a whole host of others. I'll bet that I have more than 20 9mm guns in the gun safe; a number of them are regular visitors to the range. Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

9mm gets no respect....why?

It is because of Rodney Dangerfield

 

[ironvic]

I spent most of my 30+ years of being an avid shooter eschewing the 9mm. I had plenty of .38s, many .357s and of course, the good old .45 ACP, my favorite. Then I got a 9mm P-38 WWII ex-Nazi pistol. What a joy that thing was to shoot! I sold it because the swastikas creeped me out, and bought a Sig P-220 .45. The problem with the 220 was that it felt heavy, fully loaded, and I wanted the same size gun with a smaller caliber. Right now, I don't even own a .45, mostly because I can't afford another and don't have the space for a gun collection as I live in an RV full time.

My main gun is now a Sig P-226 in 9mm and I love it. I don't feel under-armed with it and I'm pretty good with this sweet shooting pistol. As my wrists get older, the 226 doesn't smack my wrists and hand as bad as the sharp recoil from the .357. I truly enjoy shooting the .357, but unless it's a heavy gun, the old bones feel it. 9mm? I can shoot it all day, which translates into being a better shooter. 9mm ammo's cheaper than almost any other standard caliber in my area and 9mm ball for practice is very inexpensive and readily available. I can also reload if I need to.

My P-226 holds 15 + 1 rounds and fits my hand like it was custom made for me. I shoot well with it and actually like it's blocky old-school tech looks. In full size configuration, the 4.4" barrel allows the 9mm to achieve good velocity over a compact or subcompact gun. Mine's a West German model with the cool hard plastic diamond grips. Like the Navy SEAL guy said in an old Discovery Channel DVD, the 9mm is very effective when you double tap two to the heart and 1 to the head (for good luck I guess). The 9mm P-226 was standard issue for Navy SEAL teams for many years and I knew a few of 'em who carried the Sig and they felt well armed with it.

During the times I want something smaller to pack in the pocket, make mine a .357. I carry a S&W 686 Plus and go with .357 because the 2 1/2" barrel needs all the velocity help it can get to make the .38 caliber sized bullet sizzle. Otherwise, I'd be quite happy with a .38 Special +P. That being said, I don't shoot anything I'm not good with. The 686 Plus is heavy for a shorty snub and I'm a very good shot with it. Me and that gun were made for each other, and that's half the battle.

All that being said, I hope the only thing I ever have to shoot are tin cans and 2x2 chunks.

 

[chriske]

Lots of people here on THR love the 9mm. I know I do.

Of those who disrespect it, could it - possibly, maybe, in some way- have to do with the fact that the 9 mm wasn't (insert Bruce Springsteen jingle here) "booorn in the USA" ?

 

[MikePGS]

Probably because shooting something with a 9mm does nothing (or overpenetrates, take your pick) and shooting something with a .45 will cause it to explode, and shower you with money and half-naked women in bikinis.


Its true, i read it somewhere on the internet.

 

[TreyNC]

I am happy with 9mm, some reasons size of carry gun, higher cap, price of ammo, and my wife can handle it. Hell my great uncle used to carry a 32-20 that is well out preformed by 38sp and he killed five people with his.

 

[BillyBA]

9mm

I agree with Javelin all the way on this topic :

And as far as I am concerned the 9mm is the best pistol cartridge ever made. Shooting both 124 and 147gr ammo. It can be suppressed especially well and carries enough power to be used in any environment and platform from a submachine gun, AR carbines, to pistols, subcompacts, and even revolvers. There are very few cartridges that are as diverse as the 9mm.

Not only is the 9mm fairly cheaper to buy and plink with , it converts to many other fire arms such as the Kel-Tach Sub 2000 (which after months of oredering it , Im still patiently wating for it in MY posetion - I have shot one before tho?) which makes it a versatile bullet when all is said and done . Plus , I bet you any amount that if you shoot someone with a 9mm either in the pelvis that you will drop like a rock and if shot in the thoratic cavity - you will drop and go into shock ?

 

[1Texican!]

HUH?

BBA:

. . . the 9mm is the best pistol cartridge ever made.

Really? - Well, everyone's entitled to an opinion

I bet you any amount that if you shoot someone with a 9mm either in the pelvis that you will drop like a rock and if shot in the thoratic cavity - you will drop and go into shock ?

Goll-ley! I sure hope not - doesn't really sound like it's in the best interest of the shooter - HUH?

 

[doubs43]

Plus , I bet you any amount that if you shoot someone with a 9mm either in the pelvis that you will drop like a rock and if shot in the thoratic cavity - you will drop and go into shock

There have simply been too many instances when the 9mm has proven to be ineffective or lacking. The FBI went to larger calibers after this incident:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Note that Platt was shot twice with a 9mm (one that would have eventually killed him) and wasn't taken out by any means. The same two shots from a .45 ACP would have likely ended the fight.

 

[MikePGS]

Note that Platt was shot twice with a 9mm (one that would have eventually killed him) and wasn't taken out by any means. The same two shots from a .45 ACP would have likely ended the fight.

I could be wrong, but wasn't the fight ultimately ended by the .38 special which is of course not as powerful as 9mm?

 

[MCgunner]

For me, IMHO, the 9x19 in a pocket sized subompact is the ULTIMATE defensive carry. 410 ft lbs, 1263 fps for a 115 Hornady XTP from a 3" barrel pushed by 6.5 grains unique, a compressed load. That's got more zip on it than any .38 special loading especially from a snubby and approaches .357 magnum ballistics. It is very controllable and accurate from the diminutive little pocket gun, which is the main attribute as I see it. Easy to carry, safe to carry, easy to hit with, reliable, and powerful. I have a .380, but I don't carry it very often.

 

[safenate]

Funny enough, most 9, 40 & 45 have very similar energy potential. +P loads in 9 & 45 NEARLY equal those of most 40 loads. What one may gain by the extra 2mm (9mm = .35 caliber; .45 = 11mm) they lose with twice the 9mm bullets. I have shot plenty of all three calibers and would very comfortably continue to carry the 9mm, or the 40, or the 45 to defend myself. I shoot 9mm in USPSA, because I carry it for duty, mostly.