9mm gets no respect...why?

[BCRider]

Having left my hearing muffs off and shot a single .22 round at an indoor range I can see... er... hear the sense in what she taught you. The .22 was enough to make me flinch in the indoor setting. I can't imagine the effect of a magnum round of any caliber when shot indoors.

 

[Dirtpile]

About the only drawback to the 9mm as a defensive round is that while loads are engineered to expand reliably, they are also for the most part over-engineered to feed reliably. Which results in a an overly narrow pocket when compared to other calibers. Even a fair number of .380 pills have larger pocket openings than many used in 9s. Other than that it's a very good round. Plenty of power in a small package.

 

[earlthegoat2]

In the words of one of my old coworkers: "The 9mm has killed more people than cancer."

If I were to buy a Glock it would be the 19. If I were to get another pistol it would be BHP.

 

[C-grunt]

Back in the early days of the hollowpoint the 9mm had two flavors. The light weight 115 grn and the 147 grn. The 115s would expand but not penetrate deep and the 147s wouldnt always expand. With modern HP designs, the light weights hold together better and penetrate more and the slower 147s expand reliably.

Plus the whole Miami FBI shootout happened. They had to have a scape goat, so the 9mm was it. They couldnt admit that their agents were horribly outgunned by a determined opponent. I do believe that the 9mm round did actually kill him but, unlike the movies, many people dont just fall down dead when shot.

 

[Hush]

short answer to your original question:
The Miami FBI Shootout.

A BG took a should be fatal wound from a 9mm and continued to fight. Everybody panicked, the FBI switched to 10mm...that lasted a long time, and the rest is history.
Of course the problem isnt with the round, but the style of cartridge.
In the right confiuration, the 9mm is still a very viable round, and not to mention...NATO friendly, thus widely available around the world.

 

[t_dickinson]

Don't to break the thread but why do people say the .38 spl is now the wimpy kid? I seem to have read thousands of posts by folks who would leave the house without their trigger finger before they would abandon thier .38 J-Frame!

 

[Hush]

+P+ baby!

 

[Girodin]

I would reference you to the poll "what caliber did you carry today?" 9mm recieved a plurality of votes. That is the ultimate respect, actually chosing to carry it. I own .45s but also feel adequately armed when I carry one of my 9mms

 

[kilo729]

There's no real good reason. In the end it's a pistol round, and pistols aren't the godless killing machines that bears and rifles are. Shot placement is what's key with it and other pistol rounds.

 

[jaholder1971]

C-Grunt and Hush hit it on the nose.

 

[RedneckCopsWife]

Girodin,

I was wondering if when you first shot the 9MM if it was more accurate than your 45's. This is my first time owning a 9MM and found that it was more accurate than my G27 that I have been using for years. I'll be getting another gun in April and decided to get a Springfield XD 40 with the 3" to use as my carry weapon. My husband thinks that the XD 45 would be too much for me. He only said this because his duty weapon was a Glock 22 and I had a hard time with that when we went to the range. Like I said, I'm just curious what you thought.


Susi

 

[Phydeaux642]

the ideal pocket gun is an aluminum & plastic Ruger Alaskan, chambered in .454 Casull.

I gots to have me one of them. I think Ruger is making one called the LCC (Light Compact Cannon).

I like 9mm because it's much less expensive to practice with, therefor, I get to shoot more making me mo' better.

 

[polekitty]

Mostly----------

Mostly, it only gets no respect from people who have never been shot with one. But, if you do carry a 9 you need to carry the "right" kind of ammo! Light (124gr max) JHP bullet, +P.

 

[LightningJoe]

Because it's a dinky little cartridge. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, but intuitively, when you hold it up next to .45 Auto cartridge, it looks tiny.

 

[tipoc]

First off it gets alot of respect. Over 100 years old it's still one of the rounds against which all overs are judged or compared.

No other handgun round has gone through as much development and redevelopment. This is because it has woirked well at it's job.

For decades it's been debated whether it's as good as the .45 or not. In itself a testiment to it's abilities.

It's been chambered in many of the best firearms ever made.

When they developed the .40 S&W it was so that it could fit in guns of the same size as the 9mm firearms and compete with it. Testiment again.

Famously reliable and accurate.

It's biggest downside is that in FMJ form it famously overpenetrates, more than ball ammo in .45 or .40 S&W. This is only a downside in an urban self defense environment most other places it's a plus.


Nope it's not as powerful as the .45acp, the .357 magnum, the .45 Colt, the .40 S&W or a bunch of others we could mention. But it's chambered in some of the finest guns ever made and it can work as well as the others at it's job.
It doesn't get respect from folks who know no better.

tipoc

 

[novaDAK]

the 357 magnum is near the top of everyone's list as a potent manstopper. And the 9x19 is almost exactly the same calibre (.356), and with proper loading (e.g. +p or +p+) should be comparable in velocity to the 357 mag.

It's not. 9mm +P+ is typically a 115gr @ 1300fps, while standard .357mag is typically a 125gr @ 1450fps. The 9mm listed above is pretty hot for a 9mm, loaded above industry standards for pressure. However, the .357 load listed above is still a few hundred fps below top loadings. Not to mention .357mag can launch heavier bullets that 9mm can only dream of.

Also, they are loud and if I'm defending myself, I'd prefer to be able to hear over the ringing in my ears.

I've shot 9mm outdoors without hearing protection. Even after one shot, all I could hear for a good 20 seconds after the shot was ringing, of course .357 is worse, but how much it matters is up for debate since you won't be thinking about your hearing when you pull the trigger.

With the right loads (either 158gr LSWCHP +P or 125/135gr Gold Dots) the .38spl is just fine. With the right loads (124gr Gold Dots, 147gr HST, etc.) 9mm is just fine. Everything has its advantages (and disadvantages).

 

[Kind of Blued]

I shot some Buffalo Bore 147gr. 9mm +P+ yesterday out of my Kahr PM9...

I then shot my 1911. The first round of .45 was the first time I've ever flinched while shooting my 1911.

 

[BigBlock]

The power of a .357 and a 9mm cannot be compared just because they are the same size. Both will do the same job of stopping a person. Beyond that the .357 can be used for hunting and woods protection where a 9mm would be laughed at. It's not about the cartridge really, but rather revolvers are able to operate over a HUGE range of velocities and weights, where an auto cannot.

 

[1Texican!]

Just a suggestion . . . but . . .

RCW/Susi -

. . . I think that if you were to fire both the Glock & the XD side by side & both with the same .45 ammo, you would experience a noticeable difference in recoil between the two pistols. Try before you buy - you just might be in for a pleasant surprise . . .

 

[makarovnik]

The 9mm gets plenty of respect. Soldiers shooting standard ball ammo might not like them but with good hollowpoints they will get the job done.

It might not have the stopping power of the .357 magnum but it's almost as good as the .45acp.

 

[lanternlad1]

Over 100 years old it's still one of the rounds against which all overs are judged or compared.

The .45acp is also over 100 years old. Invented in 1904 by J.M. Browning. So there.

That said, I carry 9mm. I use 9mm for plinking. I have a 9mm sidearm and a 9mm carbine. Why? I can hit my target with it. No other reason. I shoot 10 times better with 9mm than I do with any other round. Plus, its available everywhere, and cheaper than .45.

 

[481]

I am always surprised when someone refers to the 9mm as "underpowered".

Domestic ammunition in both chamberings has similar levels of KE.

9mm 115gr @ 1160fps = 343.6 fpe
9mm 124gr @ 1120fps = 345.4 fpe
9mm 147gr @ 1000fps = 326.4 fpe

.45 185gr @ 950fps = 370.7 fpe
.45 230gr @ 825fps = 347.6 fpe

Given the present levels of performance displayed by the current premium bullet designs, there appears to precious little difference between the two calibers.

I s'pose that I just don't see the purpose served by such a "debate".

I like and carry both. (G17 and HK USP45)

 

[X-Rap]

I think the 9's resurgence is largely due to peoples understanding that having a weapon that shoots a standardized (NATO) round may be of some benefit in the future mainly due to availability.
As to its efficency, comparison of the 9 with other calibers and only considering the improvements to the 9 are a bit disingenuine. If you put better bullets and powder in one you must allow it in the other so the 9 continues to lag behind larger calibers. How important this is in the real world is debateable but I'm convinced that 9mm could be much easier to aquire than 357sig, 45GAP, or even .40SW. That is why I have moved toward some conversion options.
9mm pistols are starting to become the rarity in a lot of shops that I have been to lately.

 

[Boba Fett]

X-Rap
9mm pistols are starting to become the rarity in a lot of shops that I have been to lately.

Interesting.

Do you think it could be because of the recent gun buying sprees and 9mm just has a higher popularity among the average citizen than other caliber pistols?

Or is your hypothesis that they are losing popularity and thus not being stocked as much?


I haven't seen a drop in 9mm popularity in my area, but I have seen a slight increased interest in 45s. When I'm at the stores I frequent, the talk of people interested in purchasing is generally well balanced between 9mm and 45s, with the 380 usually coming up for carry and women.

 

[X-Rap]

No I'm sorry you miss understood my statement. What I implied was that the popularity was increasing due to its standardization as a NATO cartridge. My personal tilt is to get barrels/mags for some of my .40 cal. just because round for round the 9mm is produced in far greater numbers than any other.
This may only be regional and also related to the mind set of the clientel of the shops I visit.
I personally have no quarrel with the 9mm but do understand that there are better calibers available for the time being.