9mm: Underrated underdog or merely underpowered reject?

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Amadeus

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Without this turning into a caliber war (please please) what qualities does the 9mm have that make it an effective stopper? And I'm not just talkin' 9mm pistols with high capacity. I am referring to the round itself. Why is it a good defense round?

Come on, gang. Wax positive on the 9mm. If possible!
 
It's a low recoil round,which makes it easy to shoot...therefore you'll practice more and we all know shot placement is #1....I know I wouldn't want to get shot with one. :D
the stats on 9mm +p's are pretty impressive(of course I have no link to back this statement up right now)
are there better SD rounds,sure,but 9mm is more than acceptable IMO.
 
What is the sound of a dead horse being beaten?

This ''discussion" has been going on since 1908 or so... the 9mm is just fine when dressed in modern hollowpoints... and was designed 'across the pond' in a place where very few people rode horses to work.

It was and is however, a lot of 'pop' in a relatively small package, esp. with today's metallurgy. Of course a smaller package means more recoil... but in a full sized pistol like a BHP/Glock/CZ recoil is very manageable.

The biggest reason cops switched to 9mm was capacity, you really shouldn't ignore that fact. Compared to a similar size/wieght .38 or .45 a 9mm has twice as many bullets and is still very lethal.

And a really good reason to choose a 9mm... is the staggering number of firearms chambered for it compared to other autoloaders... everything from pocket guns to 100 shot pistols are out there...

9mm might be a compromise, but it's an effective one.
 
This ''discussion" has been going on since 1908 or so...
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're correct. Since we have to justify the 9mm so much, maybe it is time for the little thumper to just go away for good.
 
9mm is just fine as a combat/SD weapon. It has a track record of dropping folks for about as long, maybe longer, than the 45. Just ask any soldier that was in WW2 if a 9mm would ruin your day.
 
9mm

Though not a great fan of the 9 Parabellum, I have to give the devil his due.
Energy and velocity levels that beat the .38 Special +p loadings...Low recoil...
Good penetration...Small, high-quality, easy totin' pistols that take it. Wide availability...Many very good hollowpoint designs to choose from as well as bullet weights...Did I mention pretty cheap to shoot if you go with the bargain hardball ammo that's out there? Okay...Cheap shootin'.

Would I choose a 9mm? Probably not. Would I lack confidence if that was all I had? No. 2 or 3 well-placed 9mm rounds will completely wreck your day.
 
what qualities does the 9mm have that make it an effective stopper?
Click to expand...
how about the fact that it's a f*** of alot better than having nothing when you're getting stabbed to death by a crackhead.
 
Well, you could go to: www.gunweek.com and click on the Sept. 10 cover story, and read my article on my son using a Browning Hi-Power with FMJ loads in Iraq. I think that will give you more confidence in the 9mm, even in military form. He put down eight men with it, and none complained that it wasn't effective. Hits do have to be in a suitable area, but that's largely true with any cartridge. The late David W. Arnold told me that the 9mm was usually quite effective in the Rhodesian bush war. As a police administrator, he was in a position to know.

I use JHP's in my CZ-75, but those weren't available to Spook (see the story) , and he got by quite well.

Lone Star
 
I know that it can penetrate 12 or more inches of deer, through a rib, muscle and hide, deflate both lungs and leave a quarter sized 'hamburger' hole through the heart only to stop an inch deep in the off shoulder.

9mm FEG Hi-Power 115 gr Winchester Silver Tip.

Anyone who had seen that wouldn't call that a 'wimp' round.
 
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When it got popular here in the '80s it was soon found to be a bit wanting and overated. Now, though, ammo design has caught up with the hype, and made it a viable defense round. Not my 1st choice - still not thrilled depending on magic bullets to make it effective or trying to weed thru the different choices of bullet weights/pressures because none is a clear-cut performer - but it would be a better choice then .380 in a small concealed piece (if you could handle the recoil).
 
Energy and velocity levels that beat the .38 Special +p loadings...Low recoil...
Click to expand...

it can penetrate 12 or more inches of deer, through a rib, muscle and hide, deflate both lungs and leave a quarter sized 'hamburger' hole through the heart only to stop an inch deep the off shoulder
Click to expand...

Thank you Dr. Rob and 1911Tuner. These are the kind of statements I was seeking. Based on this responses I really should have named this the "sh*t I've seen 9mm do" thread.
 
Thin Black Line-

Thanks so much! But if you go directly to the article, you miss the photo of the Pesh on the truck with the RPK, one of the best photos in the story, which is why they used it for the cover.

Again, thanks. I appreciate the compliment.

Lone Star
 
While a 9mm is not generally my first choice when I select a gun for CC. Nevertheless, based on its performance with quality HP ammo, I don't feel inadequately armed when I do carry it.

Perhaps the occassion that I am most inclined to carry it is hiking trails near suburban areas where the risk of encountering a pack of feral or semi-feral dogs is highest. Then I find comfort in the high capacity magazines and the ability to get back on target quickly under stress, especially where the target will be fairly small and quick.

Fortunately, I've never had to shoot a dog in such circumstances. But I came close when I encountered two large, unattended and aggressive dogs in the woods. Maybe I'm anthropomorphizing, but I had the uncanny sense that if I hadn't drawn down on the leader they would have attacked. My pistol was a very comforting companion on that occassion.
 
Don't try this at home because of ricochet's, but I shot .32 acp, .380 acp and 9mm (all WWB) into 1/2" thick polycarbonate (plexiglass). The .32 and .380 put slight dents in the surface and the 9mm burned right through and buried itself 1/2" into the oak stump I had as backup.
 
I 'finished off a deer' with mine... Stepehen Camp has hunted deer with a 9mm.

Not the first choice I'd pick as a 'hunting arm' but with good placement it's a killer.
 
For me, its an easy choice. I'm a poor college student, yet I'd like to have something adequate for self/home defense. I also enjoy shooting, and if (God forbid) I ever have to fire in anger, I'll be much more comfortable with a round that I've be able to afford to shoot frequently and practice and train with.

9mm is a clear winner for a centerfire pistol cartridge in:
-Cost
-Availability
-shootability (debatable)
-Capacity (debatable)
-Performance (highly debatable)
 
My solution... own both.

When I get the money... for now it's the 9mm, because the ammo is cheap, can be found at any wal-mart, thus I can practice with it, and practice makes perfect.


I recently ordered several boxes of this for my good defensive ammo as well... with 15 in the clip, I'm certain that I will be able to address any situation that might occur.

I've also got a 20 gauge combat style shotgun with plenty of number 3 buckshot for home defense... I'll take that before any pistol.
 
Fares as well or better than .45 with the right ammo, and you get more rounds, so what's not to like?

Oh yeah and cheap practice ammo.
 
"I 'finished off a deer' with mine... Stepehen Camp has hunted deer with a 9mm."

Lets clear something up, Mr. Camp lives in Texas and hunts Texas sized deer. 9mm would probably not be enough for our bigger northern deer. I live in Indiana and although 9mm is legal to hunt deer with, I would only do it if I had a doe permit and made the shot at close range. Texas deer are about the size of a starved German Shepard. :neener:

Seriously, Mr. Camp has done some great hunting with the 9mm and seem to think it is okay for pigs and jackrabbits. I don't think he recomends it for deer but he has killed them with it.

The reason 9mm is a good round is because it is faster than most and penetrats more than most. A 9mm is faster than a .45acp and will go through more flesh. This not always what you want but sometimes it is what you REALLY need. That is why 9mm has stayed around for so long. It works better than some cartridges in some situation and some cartridges work better in others. That is why the .45acp is still around. 9mm will be better under some circunstances and .45acp will be better in others. It is not an either or type of question. I am not trying to turn this into a caliber war but I needed to use the .45 as an example of a slow heavy caliber.
 
From the article:
knows what some of the gun magazine chest-beaters claim in print, and admits that he hasn’t shot any blocks of ballistic gelatin. He has shot eight men with the nine, though, and all went down with center thorax hits. One or two shots sufficed, if well placed.
Click to expand...
So, the "9mm vs. .45" debate is now officially OVER!!! :neener:

I've spoken to several folks who have had to use the venerable Parabellum in self-defense, and it's never failed any of them. The beefy .45 is just for guys who have to, um...compensate.

(Don't get all worked up--half my guns are .45s, so I'm half-compensating!)
 
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