9mm vs. .45

9mm, .45, or other?

  • 9mm

    Votes: 137 43.2%

  • .45

    Votes: 145 45.7%

  • other

    Votes: 35 11.0%
  • Total voters
    317
  • Poll closed .
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Sure a lot of 9x19's have 15 round magazines, and sure they generally have a flatter trajectory, but given that nearly 100 years ago the US Army rejected the 9mm in favor of the .45 ACP and only adopted the 9x19 in 85' because the rest of NATO was using it, I'm guessing that there is SOMETHING to the .45 ACP that only politics can over-shadow.
 
given that nearly 100 years ago the US Army rejected the 9mm in favor of the .45 ACP and only adopted the 9x19 in 85' because the rest of NATO was using it, I'm guessing that there is SOMETHING to the .45 ACP that only politics can over-shadow.
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In FMJ(as the military is required to use), the .45 is the clear winner, 9mm doesn't come into its own until it's loaded with good hollowpoints.
 
no clear cut winner

possum..."it dosen't matter all handguns suck."

+1

same posting from possum...

"... http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-...ssionid=10BDC02F0CF4D0B083E43EA06A47B949pital ..."

i'd hafta say there really is ~NO~ silver bullet. no single load/caliber/firearm platform goes through an entire production run without hard copy proof turning up somewheres azza dismal failure. the variables in this equation are SOO-o-o-o vast as to be virtually non-quantifiable.

HELL, I READ AN ACCOUNT OF A US GI WHO STOPPED AN RPG ROUND LENGTHWISE THROUGH HIS GUTS, AND IS DOING WELL TODAY. kudos for that mobile hospital surgeon!!! a heartfelt thank you for the GI defending us in the sandbox!!!

the flip side of that record was the mas ayoob investigation into the cop who, as i recall, died immediately after a perp shot at him AND MISSED with a 44mag @ muzzle flash burn distance.

i repeat, ..."the variables in this equation are SOO-o-o vast as to be virtually non-quantifiable"...

even marshall/sanow compilations of one shot stops are bogus under a microscope. gotta say that [to me] it is the closest to usable info of any emassed for these purposes. but held up to the light, some holes are visible.

if the above mentioned rings no bells with you, pls see:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/books/book_stopping.asp

f'rinstance...

what handgun? none of us here need to debate the obvious. some firearms designs are just easier to be accurate with. what would blow this outta the water as to NOT be possible to include is that some kids are/become good with ANY platform and enough famfire.... i can't even dump unaimed lead outta my trusty 1911 as quickly as jerry mickulek hits center mass with a double action S&W revolver!!! pls see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qovg0xA4Ao

other variables....

adrenaline/drug level of perp?

what bbl length used for the shooting?

same basic idea, bbl ported?

day or night time shooting?

same basic idea, night sights and/or flashlight?

distance between perp and the mythical "one shot stopper" caliber/loading/weapon?

clothing perp wears?

same basic idea, obstructions betwixt?

physical prowess of perp, shooting skills of perp?

the time and energy to collect and assort these into a usable format would be staggering, and in the cases that required a rating of shooter ability, literally IMPOSSIBLE.

methinx i could beat this horse to subterranean levels, butcha get the idea. nothing works all the time, except pulling the trigger until safety is restored.

the best we can hope for is to pick the best compromise, and avoid the saturation entirely with good awareness in the possibly lifetime of moments and events that lead up to SHTF shootings.


gunnie

PS- the best caliber is the one you have at hand when you really need it.
 
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Perhaps there's a reason why NATO uses the 9mm.

-I have read many a tale of .45 ball failing to achieve one, two, or even 5 shot stops. Ditto for the 9mm round.

-In a war environment, using tactics our military subscribes to, higher capacity is always better. Consider that in war, there's a good chance you'll have multiple adversaries.

-9mm has very mild recoil, especially out of a service sized auto. NATO spec. ammo is hot (the way it should be) but still offers incredible speed for follow up shots.

-9mm is very efficient to produce compared to .45 auto and to a slightly lesser extent, .40 S&W.


Since home defense is not a war environment (yet), the .40 or .45 may seem like it offers better "stopping power" (I'm not so sure) even if it has less capacity. An experience of mine that I've noted is that, ball ammo aside, .45s are a bit finicky about loading JHPs in all of the guns I've shot except a Beretta Cougar 8045. 1911s are a classic example. Feed them ball and they'll run all day if setup correctly. They really choke on certain JHPs. I believe .45s carry a "magical" mystique about themselves. It is the all American gun and cartridge choice. They are one of the sexiest pistols ever designed, no doubt, however, I would not carry one. People believe in it's effectiveness for these reasons. In the end that's what matters, having belief in the steel (or polymer) you carry all day. Its a Cougar 8000 loaded with Double Tap 9mm+P 147 gr. GDHP for me thank you.
 
I shoot best with my S&W 645-my choice! Bulky and heavy but utterly reliable with anything I have fed it so far. My 457 is another story. BUT you have to ALWAYS CARRY for it to be of any use!! If you leave it home to go get coffee that will be the ONE time it is needed. Prepared:banghead:? I AM:D
 
JAV8000,

guess i'm just lucky, but i have several 1911's that have fed most every flavor of HP, as built. at least the ones i have used, this includes the old yellow box speer lawman "flying ashtrays". same well known for feeding issues.

two DID require throating to do so. not really a very difficult task if one has seen it done by others. i can't understand why this is not standard on all OEM 1911 models. it is only a little extra fitting.

i also like to lower and enlarge the ejection port in the front to allow for clearing FTF full length ball rounds, which can hang up on the bullet tip in original milspec slides.

in the house, HP's are fine. but other than that i ~prefer~ the flat point ball hornady "air force" loading or plain vanilla ball ammo for all around use.

even though JHP usage presents no problems.

the key to that statement was "for all around use". i'll trade a slight advantage in expansion for the extra reliability in penetration.

great JHP bullet expansion, even with the extra cutting edges of the jacket petals is not superior in my mind---if it only makes one hole.

just my >$0.02.

gunnie

PS i agree with you about 45ACP and other calibers/loadings ability to fail with multiple center mass hits, but think the NATO standardization AND logistics of transporting smaller rounds was a prime factor also. same-o for the 5.56 VS 7.62. this is a non-issue consideration for civillian usage.
 
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You want stopping power? Simple fact is, neither the 9mm or the .45 can give it. In fact, I know a paratrooper who fought in Vietnam and took a burst from 12.7mm AA gun. Took four in the gut and two in the arm and he's still around with all his appendages.

Theres only one round with real stopping power, and thats the forty. No, not the .40 S&W, the 40mm. Load one of these babies up with some high explosive and THEN you'll have stopping power. ;)

File:M-32_Grenade_Launcher.jpg


imVho, with anything above .380, it's all about marksmanship. Go for the heart, lungs, and brain. People can survive a tremoundous amount of trauma to the intestines and arms/legs as long as an artery isn't severed.
 
<--------------- can make exploding bullets

Load 9mm or 40 s&w or 45 with ranger t series and they will all stop the same with any of these calibers. If a person wants to be cheap and is stupid and loads these with ball ammo it will make a difference. If a person is all coked up a 9mm with ball can go right through them, and they won't fall. Use ranger t series put a primer in the hollow point now when you need to shoot someone you have a exploding bullet. People that argue that the 45 is better aren't very educated in the area of hollow point bullets you are on the computer research!!!!!!!!!!!! All I know is that I can outrun a 45 cal bullet :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
justinvoights,

there was a company that sold "exploders" like you describe before they were OUTLAWED [at least here in tejas] in the seventies. was a waste of senate time, they were much better at creating hype than nasty wound chanels.

as a result, they almost eliminated themselves before the law did.

gunnie

PS--you've heard of the FBI miami shoot?

"you are on the computer research!!!!!!!!!!!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

edit: the "exploder" brand even had powder behind the primer.
 
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exploding bullets

I HAVEN'T EVER MADE THESE JUST HEARD MY DAD TELL ME ABOUT THEM HE IS A RETIRED COP AND WAS ON THE SWAT TEAM BUT ALL I KNOW IS IS THAT THE 40 AND 9MM ARE LOADED WITH RANGER T SERIES AND THE RUGER LCP WITH HYDROSHOKS BECAUSE I CANT GET RANGER T SERIES IN 380 HAVE A GOOD DAY GUYS::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
So who won the 9mm or .45? if the winner hasnt been decided yet pls message me when a winner is found.
 
My game plan to end a bad situation is to keep firing until 1) The bad guy is no longer a clear and present danger, or 2) My weapon goes "click". Nor am I one to trust even a 12 gauge slug to be a "one shot man stopper"...

In a home defense situation one of my mitts will have a tac light in it, the other my weapon, and my tighty-whities doesn't have a mag pouch, soooo...out on the street I MAY have a spare, but here in Florida, the more stuff you carry the greater the chance of imprinting, so I tend to just pack a piece....and just stay out of the biker bars when I'm wearing a tu-tu.

And as been said may times in many ways, doesn't matter how big a chunk of lead you throw down range if it doesn't contact some indispensable gibbets. Of the two choices, I have to go with 15 of the 9mm.....preferably 147gr Gold Dots.
 
I HAVEN'T EVER MADE THESE JUST HEARD MY DAD TELL ME ABOUT THEM HE IS A RETIRED COP AND WAS ON THE SWAT TEAM BUT ALL I KNOW IS IS THAT THE 40 AND 9MM ARE LOADED WITH RANGER T SERIES AND THE RUGER LCP WITH HYDROSHOKS BECAUSE I CANT GET RANGER T SERIES IN 380 HAVE A GOOD DAY GUYS:
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I CAPITALIZE ALL OF MY LETTERS WHEN I TYPE BECAUSE I DESPERATELY NEED ATTENTION.

Just picture me as Billy Mays.
 
Dang sure surprized this debate is still going on. Sure with good hollowpoint ammo 2+1 will correct any defected person bent on doing anyone damage. I think it all boils down to what is perceived to what is reallity.

There are have been reported LEO shootings were .45 ACP did not take the suspect down with a simple one shot stopper. There was one case in Arizona where a suspect was shot more than 5 times COM from a .40 cal. Now in some cases we will here where a suspect was taken down with a single well placed shot from a 9mm.

So what is your flavor, and do you practice regularly with it?
 
Todays Hollowpoints

With today's Hollowpoints go with the 40 or the 9mm it's not like there isn't any Ranger T series or other Hollowpoints. The military was all about the 45 because they use ball ammo only. How many of you have ever been in a gunfight it's all about bullet placement if you only get an arm or a leg shot then run out of bullets with the 45 you can get shot. With a 9mm or a 40 you have double the chances. I can run faster than a 45 bullet.
 
I'll take a hand held 105 howitzer please or a chain gun :cuss:

But I'd rather have a G23 falls betwen the 9mm and the 45acp nicey:neener:
 
WHO CARES 9mm or 40 is better than the 45 for capacity reasons

It doesn't matter 9mm or 40 either have double the capacity of the 45 and they all have the same number of one shot kills in the FBI testing cause if you place any caliber bullet correctly it will kill someone even a 22LR will kill someone with a headshot. You kill the head you kill the body.:banghead:
 
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