9MM XTreme 124 and W231

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Buzznrose said:
I’m having a hard time reconciling what’s going on.

Disclaimer up front, I am used to shooting FMJ 115gr factory ammo from various manufacturers, including Greco, Magtec, Speer, PPU, S&B, Federal, etc., bought when on sale.

Just getting back into reloading. I’m reloading on a Dillon 550C and had a friend who has one and reloaded for years help get me started. I weigh every 8-10th charge and spot check about the same for COAL when I reload.

I loaded 124 gr Xtreme bullets with 3.95 grains W231. COAL is 1.149.

Using the Hodgdon data for Berry 124 gr bullets, the range is 3.9-4.0

View attachment 1059197

Brass is mixed but all factory ammo cases on their first reload…I know this because it’s my brass.

These loads seem very hot. I don’t have a chronograph to check actual velocity, but compared to factory ammo, it’s zesty!

What tells me it’s hot?

1. Cases are sailing 6-8 feet during ejection vs 1-2 ft from factory ammo.

2. Steel targets on our private range are swinging much more like as if they are hit by my .45 (230 FMJ factory) compared to factory 115 gr 9MM

I’m shooting with my Glock 19.

Is it possible Olin loaded the wrong powder In the jar, or am I so accustomed to weak ammo that I just don’t know better…


I’m thinking hard about dropping down to 3.5 grains of powder and working up to 3.8 grains to see what feels good, but as this is way below the minimum range for the bullets, will I have issues?

Thanks for any advice.
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No harm in backing off the powder charge a little. That’s the good thing about reloading- you have some wiggle room to make rounds a little lighter based on your comfort and preferences. Just test a few to make sure they cycle your pistol properly.
 
Diffentily true, But I really think his scale is off. That charge with 231 would be around 1000fps. The 115gr factory ammo he listed average around 1150fps. His handloads at the starting load shouldn't feel night and day difference over range ammo. It was enough of a difference that he posted asking what's going on something is off. That's a good indicator you are over charging your rounds. Sure you can back off the charge, but if your going to reload you absolutely have to have an accurate way to weigh your powder charge. It's the most important part. Calibers, case gauges, loading books, ect are all great. But if you are dropping 4.8gr of powder when you think it is 3.9gr. You are flirting with disaster. Some caliber/powder combinations are more forgiving then others. Sooner or later you will hit one that isn't.
 
Rule3 said:
Your method of determining "hot" is not really valid. Your factory ammo may be wimpy

The Hodgdon range of HP38 is 3.9 to 4.4grains (not 4 grs)

The Extreme bullet is not the same as the Berry Hollow base, how did you arrive at your COL?
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Thanks. Sorry I was confused by your question.

I’ll try and track down the data for the XTreme bullet.
 
Nothing you describe sounds like a problem to me.
I've had light loads begin to stove-pipe, and thats an issue to work up the load a bit.
If they are accurate I'd not worry about it. Brass ejection distance isn't necessarily indicative of ANY problem.
 
Buzznrose said:
I went by the Hodgdon data in the pic I posted.
Click to expand...

But that is not the same bullet, so the COL may or may not be the same A hollow base bullet I would think is a bit longer to make up for the hole and still be the same weight. I do not have either so can not compare just the two bullets.

Regardless you should use the plunk test to determine your COL. Your powder charge is close enough, As I said the max is 4.4 grains not 4.0

Your scale is probably fine.

How far the empty case is thrown may give some indication of powder charge but not real accurate. A chrono helps but no, you do not need to buy one. Plus you are used to 115 grain rounds Those in general use more powder than a 124.
Shoot some premium SD factory rounds and see how far the brass flies.
 
Well, darn. I have shot some of that combination but it is not in my chronograph book. I probably just treated the plated like jacketed, which was running at or near maximum to get the velocity I wanted.
 
Buzznrose said:
All,

I appreciate all your replies. I just ordered a RCBS M500 mechanical scale. I’ll use it to verify the weights. If the digital scale is off, it will go back to the store.

Thanks…I’ll give feedback when I figure it out.
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That's what I would do. FWIW I load those same bullets/powder the C.O.A.L. 1.150. That's from Xtreme's loading data. I have a PDF of their load data. Which you can get for free from their sight. Reloading is fun. Once you do it a little you will get a feel for it.
20220218_153248.jpg
 
Update:

Well, those of you who said to check my scale were dead on right! What my Hornady Pocket Digital scale was calling 3.95gr was reading 5.9gr on my new RCBS mechanical scale. No wonder I was thinking these rounds were a tad too warm!

So thanks to all who suggested the beam scale. This was a big (huge) lesson learned.

Now I have a hundred rounds to break down and reload…but I’m gonna be glad to do it!

Reset the Powder thrower to throw 4.2 and will reload the shells to see how that goes. I’m not really picky with 9MM. I’ll run through 50 and see how they go.

Again, thanks! This POS scale is headed back to the store tomorrow…I’ll stick with a beam scale from now on!
 
I would still recommend a check weight in the region you’ll be throwing charges. While I trust my balance beam more than my digital, you don’t know until you weigh a known quantity. Good luck.
 
Buzznrose said:
Update:

Well, those of you who said to check my scale were dead on right! What my Hornady Pocket Digital scale was calling 3.95gr was reading 5.9gr on my new RCBS mechanical scale. No wonder I was thinking these rounds were a tad too warm!

So thanks to all who suggested the beam scale. This was a big (huge) lesson learned.

Now I have a hundred rounds to break down and reload…but I’m gonna be glad to do it!

Reset the Powder thrower to throw 4.2 and will reload the shells to see how that goes. I’m not really picky with 9MM. I’ll run through 50 and see how they go.

Again, thanks! This POS scale is headed back to the store tomorrow…I’ll stick with a beam scale from now on!
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Great catch! Glad that worked out with no damage.
 
I load those Bullets at 4.1 grains with the same OAL. I get about 1000 FPS on the chrono depending on my barrel. 4.1 is a good shooting round with less recoil than factory ammo.
 
Buzznrose said:
I’ll look around and pick some up.
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I have some small brass washers that were fairly consistent in weight, about 2.0 gr each. One was 1.98, one was 2.02, as measured on a digital gempro 250. I also weighed them on an old 505, with the same results. I understand that’s not as good as having a checkweight but I figured they all came out of the same bag, probably the same sheet of brass, and if one was 2 gr and the other was 10 gr then I wouldn’t trust them.

Other posters have found this set of weights, not too expensive, so I got them as well:

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-Calibration-10mg-500mg/dp/B003STEJAC

Turns out my brass washers were still what they appeared to be. Good luck.
 
Buzznrose said:
Update:

Well, those of you who said to check my scale were dead on right! What my Hornady Pocket Digital scale was calling 3.95gr was reading 5.9gr on my new RCBS mechanical scale. No wonder I was thinking these rounds were a tad too warm!!
Click to expand...

I got a chill down my back when I read that. Thank Heavens you are ok.

BTW the COL listed in the Hornady or Hogdon book is what THEY used in their tests, not necessarily what you should be using.

I do not think that anyone mentioned that yet. You gotta work up your load, including your COL.. Sorry I looked back and saw that RULE already mentioned this.
 
Buzznrose said:
Update: ... Hornady Pocket Digital scale was calling 3.95gr was reading 5.9gr on my new RCBS mechanical scale.

... scale weight set and it’s on the way
Click to expand...
Glad you didn't get hurt or damage anything.

Regardless of scale type used, I cannot stress the importance of verifying accuracy with check weights.

Be safe.
 
I don't have official check weights but I use bullets for my check weights. Brand name jacketed bullets are pretty much on the weight they are supposed to be. Hornady 55gr fmj usually end up being +/- .2 115gr fmj bullets have been pretty much the same +/- .2 grains. good enough for me.
 
buba68 said:
I don't have official check weights but I use bullets for my check weights. Brand name jacketed bullets are pretty much on the weight they are supposed to be. Hornady 55gr fmj usually end up being +/- .2 115gr fmj bullets have been pretty much the same +/- .2 grains. good enough for me.
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BIG NO for me unless you had means to verify actual weight of bullet with certified scale.

After getting Ohaus check weight set that went down to 1 mg (0.015 gr) and getting scales that verified down to 0.04/0.06 gr check weights, I found many jacketed 9mm bullets could vary around 0.5-1.0 gr and more consistent match bullets like HAP/Zero/Montana Gold varied less than 1.0 gr. About the most consistent match bullets I found were RMR in-house manufactured jacketed bullets with variance of less than 0.5 gr. (And likely why ELEY chose RMR for their centerfire match ammunition)

So with many powder start/max charges being around 0.5 gr, I wouldn't rely on bullets to verify accuracy of my scales.

Accurate enough check weights have come down in price below $20. I would strongly suggest using check weights to verify the accuracy of any scale - https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-Calibration-10mg-500mg/dp/B003STEJAC
 
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