9x18 in 9x19

[blue06van]

Hello
Have been reading about the Makarov. Sounds like it would be the prefect piece for me. Right price, right size.
I am little nervous about having 9x18 and 9x19 around the house. I worry about accidentally putting 9x18 in 9x19 or vise versa.
Worst case scenario, what would happen?

 

[ChristopherG]

I don't expect it'd fire, since they both headspace on the casemouth, and it'd thus be sunk an extra mm into the chamber and away from the firing pin. Not sure if it'd actually fit in the chamber at all, though, as the case appears to have a slightly greater diameter according to this source:

http://makarov.com/graphics/9mmcases.jpg

 

[Zundfolge]

9x18 is actually 9.2x18 so its not likely to chamber in a 9x19.

9x19 is longer than 9x18 and not likely to chamber there either.


Laying side by side there is an obvious difference between the two (for one thing 9x19 is tapered whereas 9x18 is not).


Stil, be careful.

 

[Jim Watson]

9x18 Makarov will not chamber in 9x19 Para; at least not Wolf brand ammo in Glock or Kart/Colt that I tried.

Why?
Because 9x18 is not what us running dog lackeys of the capitalist Wall Street imperialists call a "9mm." It is really a 9.2mm, firing .364" bullets, and a case that seats those will not fit a chamber meant for .355" bullets.

 

[makarovnik]

I don't know if it's true or not but I read a post a while back on THR. This guy said he bought a Hi-Point 9mm but it was jamming occaisionally. He said he found out the guy at the gun store mistakenly sold him 9x18. He implied that the gun did occaisionally fire the 9x18's. I thought the larger bullet diameter would not chamber or if it did, get lodged in the barrel and KABOOM! He did say he got the correct ammo and the gun worked fine. Sounds fishy and scarey at the same time?

 

[Jim Watson]

I can see that happening with a cheap gun that maybe had a sloppy chamber and a heavy blowback slide and strong recoil spring.

Bullet "pinch" as the infamous Clark calls it, is a major source of excess pressure, but if the bullet can get out of the case, it will size down to fit nearly any barrel.

 

[MCgunner]

I've mixed up ammo with .380 before and fired a .380 in a 9. it didn't hurt the gun, the low pressure didn't cycle it, of course. Had my head where the sun don't shine, needless to say. It doesn't need to headspace on anything to fire if your extractor grabs it. It most likely will fire.

But, as stated, the 9x18 is not a 9mm. I don't think it'd go in a 9mm chamber all the way to battery, but the reverse could happen and is, considering the higher working pressure, the biggest worry here, a 9x19 going off in a Makarov pistol. Hopefully, it'd just ruin the gun and not your facial features...

 

[blue06van]

Thank you

Do you know of a web page or something with a picture showing the actual rounds to give a novice like myself a better visual picture? The diagram you posted was very good Information showing the difference in case size.

 

[Jim Watson]

ChristopherG

I just now went back and looked at those drawings.
I have looked and looked and asked and asked and this is the first time I have seen anything that says the 1970s PP Super 9mm Police is NOT the same as the 1930s Luftwaffe 9mm Ultra. They are usually lumped together. Great.

 

[Czar]

It would be a little difficult to get the 9x19 to fit in the Makarov's magazine.

Hell, with some of the ammo I have for my Makarov, It's hard to get the 9x18 in the magazine!!!


All in all, the two rounds look obviously different. I have both 9mmLugar and 9mmMakarov and I've yet to mix them up. I'd be more concerned if you had a 7.62Tokarev. 9mmLugar easily fits in magazines for 7.62Tok and there are conversion barrels for some that take a 7.62Tok to a 9mmLugar as a drop in (I'm thinking CZ52 in particular)


All in all, My Makarov and my CZ75Compact co-exist quite happily and so far they haven't tried to eat each other's food.

Edited to include pictures I just snapped... and some interesting info. You can get 1 9mmLugar in a Mak Magazine, but I highly doubt you could then load the mag into the grip.

 

[M2 Carbine]

The 9x18 will not chamber in the 9mm pistol. It will only go about half way into a 9mm chamber.
The 9x18 is a straight wall case that ends in a .364 diameter bullet.

The 9x19 is a tapered case that ends in a .355 diameter bullet.

Both have about the same base diameter.

The 9x19 WILL chamber in the 9x18 Makarov and will fire. NOT NORMALLY A SAFE THING TO DO.

The accidental chambering of a 9x19 in the 9x18 is unlikely because the longer 9x19 will NOT fit in the 9x18 magazines.
So in order to chamber a 9x19 in a 9x18 chamber it would have to be purposely fed into the chamber by hand.
Not something that would be done accidentally.

 

[blue06van]

Wow
Thank you for the pictures. I can see the difference now. There is a gun show in South Houston this weekend. I will be there looking for one for my collection.
Thanks again for clearing this up for me.

 

[wrangler5]

I just tried 9x18 ammo from Hornady, Wolf and Brown Bear in my Browning HP barrel (outside the gun) - none would chamber fully, although the Hornady went farther in than the Russian stuff, and MIGHT have been forced fully in if the recoil spring slammed the slide into it.

I tried 9x19 Speer Gold Dot and my own reloads in my EG Makarov, and neither would chamber easily in the barrel with the slide removed. (Beware of testing this with the slide on the gun and feeding a single round into the chamber - a 9x19 round is too large to come back out the ejection port if the bullet is still in the case, and requires removing the firing pin (for safety) and then some fiddling around to release the extractor before you can get back to where you started. Please don't ask me how I know this.)

I have heard that some 9x19 rounds will chamber fully in a Makarov, and that occasional tests have shown that most Maks can survive firing a 9x19 round. But tough as the Mak is, it is NOT a recommended test to make. And as others have noted, it's NOT something you can do by accident - a 9x19 would have to be singly loaded into a Mak through the ejection port.

I've had both 9x18 and 9x19 guns in the house for a year or more, and reload for both (as well as 9x17, just to keep things complicated). Every commercial Mak round that I've seen (and every Mak round that I've reloaded) just LOOKS different from a 9mm Luger round, so if you shoot on any regular basis it would take a real brain cramp to mix them up in the first place.

I will also say that my Makarovs (Russian and East German - almost nobody can buy just one ) are my favorite centerfire pistol to plink away at steel plates with (50 yard accuracy is outstanding,) and are as much fun to practice with close up on IDPA silhouette targets as my Browning, except for magazine changes. The EG Mak is my daily carry gun when I can wear cover - it's just a tad large for my pants pockets so I carry something smaller in the summer. My Makarov (Bulgarian) with the 22 conversion barrel and slide is also my favorite 22 plinker. Almost nobody regrets buying a Makarov, and most who sell one regret doing so. Just stay alert and you will have NO problems mixing up the ammo, and you WILL enjoy owning and shooting a Mak.

 

[Shoney]

In reloading, the 9x18 and 9x19 shell holder are the same. You can take 9x19 cases and trim them to 18mm and use them in the Mak. I use Starline cases for general purpose in the 9x18, but use trimmed 9x19 nickel cases for my carry ammo.

When the SAAMI specs for the 9x18 were developed, to avoid liability they set them for the worst pistols (like the old FEG as one example) chambered for that cartridge, and therefore specs were set at an extremely anemic level IMHO. Maks are tougher. In shooting some of the older LVE Russian ammo, which was intended for the 9x18 Mak, you find that they used 115 gr bullets and produces velocities (1050 +/- fps) just slightly under 9x19.

Bottom line, even if it were possible to accidentally load and fire a 9x19 in your 9x18. , as long as it’s a Russian, E.German or Bulgarian Mak,, there should be no ill effects.