A Motion - re: The Term "Assault Rifle"

[ATBackPackin]

I don't think arsenal is a bad word, but what qualifies as an arsenal. The media said Holmes had an arsenal with all of four guns.

 

[CSestp]

I cannot see how not to call it an Assault Rifle. The M-16 was designed and is used to assault enemy positions. It was NOT made for recreation, hunting, or anything else short of killing the enemy. Same with the majority of firearms. It is not the purpose of what the tool was designed for that makes it evil. It is the purpose in which man uses it that makes the man evil. Calling it what it is does not make it any more or less evil. Even if we called it a fluffy bunny that shoots hopes and dreams out its rear end will not help the image it portrays to antigun people. Calling it anything other than what it was made for is just IMO fortifying the cause that something is wrong with owning one.

 

[hso]

Nope

Words have meaning and unless we can own the meaning of "assault rifle" to get rid of the selective fire meaning we should keep hammering away at the idea that the assault rifle is a machine gun instead of what is commonly sold.

The current semiautmatic rifles using military developed ergonomics are like sports cars without the muscle. A Lamborghini or Ferrari or even a Roush are worlds apart from the Mitsubishi 3000 GT ( Geezer Transportation) or the Mazda Rx 8 (nice, but not a "rocket"). Mitsu and Mazda might look cool and they might be promoted as "sporty", but no own is foolish enough to think they're the same thing.

Why let the other side own the dialogue by defining the terms to their advantage when the advantage is to make the public think you can buy a machine gun at Walmart.

 

[303 hunter]

This is something I've been thinking about: what if the Colorado shooter had used an extended (10 round) semi auto 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot. I have experience with such a gun,and would much rather have it when the mess went down. What would the media do with this one? I love my ARs, but imagine the damage this combo could inflict.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

History

I cannot see how not to call it an Assault Rifle. The M-16 was designed and is used to assault enemy positions. It was NOT made for recreation, hunting, or anything else short of killing the enemy. Same with the majority of firearms. It is not the purpose of what the tool was designed for that makes it evil. It is the purpose in which man uses it that makes the man evil. Calling it what it is does not make it any more or less evil. Even if we called it a fluffy bunny that shoots hopes and dreams out its rear end will not help the image it portrays to antigun people. Calling it anything other than what it was made for is just IMO fortifying the cause that something is wrong with owning one.

A little history for you.

Eugene Stoner is responsible for the design.

He designed the Armalite AR-10. He scaled the design down and came up with the AR-15. "AR" does not stand for "automatic rifle" or "assault rifle." The "AR" stands for Armalite. Armalite also makes a pistol, the AR-24.

The military version of the AR-15 had full-auto enabled (later changed to burst mode). The military version is the M-16. It's an adaptation of the AR-15, which came before it (and after the AR-10).

Yes, the M-16 was adopted by the military, for military purposes.

And that leaves us with the non-military version -- which was made first -- the AR-15. Colt (see above advertisement) actually marketed the AR-15 as a sporting rifle.

So, while the actual military M-16 is a real honest-to-gawd assault rifle, the AR-15, which preceded it is not, and has never been sold/marketed as an "assault" rifle.

It's a rifle. It incorporates modern performance features and ergonomics.

Don't allow appearances to hinder your understanding of the technologies involved.

"Assault Rifle" is a technical term.

Let's try to keep our technical terms assigned properly.

And in return, I won't call your Camaro or your Porche a "race car."

Okay?

 

[Warp]

I go EBR if I want an alternative term

 

[Warp]

I don't think arsenal is a bad word, but what qualifies as an arsenal. The media said Holmes had an arsenal with all of four guns.

To the media? 2 guns, probably

 

[AWorthyOpponent]

The very term Assualt Rifle implies that the rifle is bad. Assault as a word is commonly used to depict a crime, an ambush, or something of those sorts.

As vulger as this may sound out of context, the same would be accomplished by naming a condom a "rape glove", or hollow point ammunition "cop killers". Sure, there may be cases where this name fits, but it is not for the extreme majority. They are catchy names that make the uneducated public afraid of the device that they are trying to depict as bad.

The clear and vast majority of people that use an AR or AK type rifle are not looking to lead an assault (non military of course), nor are they looking to assault someone. I personally cant see any scerenio that the term "assault rifle" would be considered a good name for them.

The news media will continue to use these names, because like any other tv show, or blog, they require positive rankings and return viewers to sustain themselves.

/rant

 

[303tom]

A little history for you.

Eugene Stoner is responsible for the design.

He designed the Armalite AR-10. He scaled the design down and came up with the AR-15. "AR" does not stand for "automatic rifle" or "assault rifle." The "AR" stands for Armalite. Armalite also makes a pistol, the AR-24.

The military version of the AR-15 had full-auto enabled (later changed to burst mode). The military version is the M-16. It's an adaptation of the AR-15, which came before it (and after the AR-10).

Yes, the M-16 was adopted by the military, for military purposes.

And that leaves us with the non-military version -- which was made first -- the AR-15. Colt (see above advertisement) actually marketed the AR-15 as a sporting rifle.

So, while the actual military M-16 is a real honest-to-gawd assault rifle, the AR-15, which preceded it is not, and has never been sold/marketed as an "assault" rifle.

It's a rifle. It incorporates modern performance features and ergonomics.

Don't allow appearances to hinder your understanding of the technologies involved.

"Assault Rifle" is a technical term.

Let's try to keep our technical terms assigned properly.

And in return, I won't call your Camaro or your Porche a "race car."

Okay?

I Second That.................

 

[HoosierQ]

Very good point about the use of the word "Sport". Perhaps "Semi-Automatic Utility Rifle"?

The reason I brought this motion to the table is that the coining of the term "Assault Rifle" actually happened when the StG44 was invented during WWII. We all know what the proper definition of same really is...all that the StG44 was, AK-47, and M-16, etc.

The problem I am hoping to see adressed is that the media and popular culture at large is not savvy enough to have made that connection...what StG really stands for...they didn't get that term from history...they got it from us. For us it was a perfectly fitting extension of the term back when these, modern, multi-purpose, utilitarian rifles became popular with the civilian shooter. Magazines sported the term etc.

It was only when the media and the anti crowd realized we were using that term, that they had a very nice term in their hands. While we know the reason...the origin...let's face it "assault" is not a positive word in any connotation. The best spin one can put on the word would be, let's say "On June 6, the Allied Armies began their assault on Nazi Germany's foothold on the beaches of Normandy". Ultimately it was a good thing for the world...but it was no damn fun for anybody and a tremendous effusion of blood attended it.

So my goal is to to find a term that catched on, gun makers, gun writers, and we starting using it all the time, we stop using it...all the while remembering that it was us that brought the term into popular use...and move on.

 

[jerkface11]

What's wrong with Semi-auto rifle?

 

[Skribs]

I was talking with a non-shooter (not an anti, really wants to learn to shoot) online friend of mine about guns, and mentioned I want an AR. She assumed it meant Assault Rifle, not from the media, but because in Counter Strike the Assault Rifle class is abbreviated AR. I did mention that one would be fun, but I was referring to the semi-automatic AR-15.

 

[Sam Cade]

Armalite also makes a pistol, the AR-24.

Turkish Sarsilmaz Kilinc 2000 CZ clones are branded as Armalites.

 

[Warp]

Very good point about the use of the word "Sport". Perhaps "Semi-Automatic Utility Rifle"?

Far too many syllables (12).

What's wrong with Semi-auto rifle?

Nothing is particularly wrong with it, it just isn't as specific or descriptive as the term "assault rifle" is used. When somebody says "assault rifle" we generally know they are not talking about my old Remington Nylon 66.

 

[Spats McGee]

I think I like SUR (Semi-auto Utility Rifle) the best. While there are several appealing options in this thread, SUR has the advantages of: (1) we already have "SUV" in common usage; and (2) it is an accurate description.

I have totally lost track of who made the post earlier that we should not "adopt the adversary's language," but I agree. The more I have learned about the legal and political maneuverings of the gun control movement in this country, the more I have realized that misuse of language and mischaracterization of events & firearms have played a big role in that movement. It's time to reclaim that part of our language.

 

[coalman]

The AK- and AR-based platforms are military long arms. Semantics, politics and bias don't change that. Call them what you will. They were designed to reliably deliver a large volume of sustained fire in an economical and mobile package. Regardless of what you call them it does not change their designed function. And, change the word and in time societal defination will make the new word just as devisive if it so desires. This is all a fool's errand IMO.

 

[HoosierQ]

My point is that our adversaries have adopted our language and are using it against us. We gave them the idea to call these things assault rifles...they didn't extract that from history and stick in on our black guns...we did that...and unwittingly foisted this terminology mess on ourselves...and they love it of course.

Sooooo...we need to come up with a new term, a better term, an accurate term, and divorce ourselves from a term that was originally coined by, and let's face facts, the Third Reich for the real deal, and adopted by us...gun owners for civilian semi-auto versions of same.

Now I don't want to split hairs and since that term is NOW the term of our adversaries we need to get away from it. If it weren't for us, they'd be calling them all "machine guns" I suspect.

 

[Skribs]

The fact is, Hoosier, most enlightened gun owners don't call it an "assault rifle" we call it a "rifle" or "semi-auto rifle". Us coming up with a more PC term isn't going to stop the media from calling it by it's media name. They care more about the story than the facts.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

The AK- and AR-based platforms are military long arms. Semantics, politics and bias don't change that. Call them what you will. They were designed to reliably deliver a large volume of sustained fire in an economical and mobile package. Regardless of what you call them it does not change their designed function. And, change the word and in time societal definition will make the new word just as divisive if it so desires. This is all a fool's errand IMO.

Yeah.

See post #47. And then look up a few posts at the actual issued military arms.

This "military" advertisement below comes from, if I recall correctly, an issue of Field & Stream, circa 1965:




There was a time when "art" was realistic painting or sculpting of the human form, landscapes. There was much organic curvature and genteel finish to the work.

And then "art" took a weird left turn and things were angles and cubes and harsh contrasts and just plain strange clashes of color and shape.

And, of course, because there were lots of lines and angles and cubes and stuff, we quit calling it art and started calling it "military architecture." Because anything with angles, monochromatic finish, synthetics, and that "shoulder thing that goes up" is obviously military.


'Cuz when determining function and application, ya hafta remember it's all about the appearance and cosmetics, don'tcha knkow.

 

[Warp]

The AK- and AR-based platforms are military long arms. Semantics, politics and bias don't change that. Call them what you will. They were designed to reliably deliver a large volume of sustained fire in an economical and mobile package. Regardless of what you call them it does not change their designed function. And, change the word and in time societal defination will make the new word just as devisive if it so desires. This is all a fool's errand IMO.

Then where's the 3 round burst or full auto option?

 

[Dunkelheit]

In Germany we often just call them autoloaders. The media and the anti´s call them machine guns or weapons of war, no matter what type of gun it is.

 

[7thCavScout]

I prefer " utility rifle".

I like that too.

 

[coalman]

The AK- and AR-based platforms are military long arms.

See post #47. And then look up a few posts at the actual issued military arms.

Then where's the 3 round burst or full auto option?

High Road or not, are we children here just trying to appear to win a debate instead of being right? Are you both really saying the AK- and AR-based platforms are not military long arms? Clearly you have have an agenda, as do the anti-gun camp, but oppositional comments like this are what make having anything reflecting a civil adult discussion impossible inside and outside camps. IMO these are the types of comments (e.g. refusal to establish a most basic standard of common definitions) that make the pro-gun camp look fanatical. Next we'll be argueing that 2A allows me to own an RPG, guns weren't made to shoot things, knives weren't made to cut things, clubs weren't made to hit things, .... I should have know better than to comment in the first place in this thread.

 

[Warp]

High Road or not, are we children here just trying to appear to win a debate instead of being right? Are you both really saying the AK- and AR-based platforms are not military long arms? Clearly you have have an agenda, as do the anti-gun camp, but oppositional comments like this are what make having anything reflecting a civil adult discussion impossible inside and outside camps. IMO these are the types of comments (e.g. refusal to establish a most basic standard of common definitions) that make the pro-gun camp look fanatical. Next we'll be argueing that 2A allows me to own an RPG, guns weren't made to shoot things, knives weren't made to cut things, clubs weren't made to hit things, .... I should have know better than to comment in the first place in this thread.

My AR is not a military long arm.

Of course, before I say that we must agree on the definition of the term "military long arm".

The way I see it my M1 Garand is (or at least used to be) a military long arm. My AR is not and never was.

 

[Hacker15E]

"Sport rifle" or "utility rifle" is my vote.