A poll on how we use the FCD on handgun brass

[.38 Special]

I don't mind a spirited debate. I do mind self-anointed "experts" trying to act like internet bullies and push their ideas on other people. It's a first-world "problem," people. Take it easy and try not to take yourselves too seriously.

As I age, I find that I "know" less and less - even some things I was utterly sure of a few decades ago turn out to have facets I'd never considered.

My introduction to the FCD came from a back-and-forth between Lee and Speer in the gun rags back in the 80s. The opening shot, if I recall correctly, was a Speer "technical bulletin" captioned "If you want to ruin your accuracy, start by ruining your bullets". Between that and some poor early experiences with Lee stuff in general, I was definitely among the group that would complain about Lee at any opportunity. As time went on, I ended up using some of their stuff with no trouble at all, and it just so happened that I ended up with a brand new four die Lee set for 10mm a few days ago. To the best of my recollection, I have never used the FCD for an autopistol cartridge, so here we are...

 

[BushMaster-15]

I've loaded at least 250K pistol loads over the years and have never used a FCD ,other than the Pistol Die set's taper crimp-er . Neither have I had any problems .
My only malfunction was decades ago with #3 SPP CCi failing to ignite . In 55 years I can still count on one hand the # of primer failures ,I've also learned over the decades ,some people come up with got to have syndrome and buy totally unnecessary gizmos and gadgets . These days I look at that fluff and pass ,been doing just fine without adding more useless clutter . IF it doesn't make groups smaller you can keep it .

 

[westernrover]

I use the FCD to resize with the carbide ring only - took the crimper out. It resizes revolver cases perfectly, whereas every other sizing die squeezes the case down excessively.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

Wow. I guess I must have been asleep on this particular subject. I didn't realize it was one of those typical internet forum hot buttons. It seems that a simple request for information from people who DO use the FCD turned into what must be a rehash of a war between the use its and the don't use its.

Like I said I have one on order in 38/357. I guess I will have to find out for myself. One point made above was that by doing a separate seating and then crimping you can make adjustments to one without affecting another. Guess I will avoid this subject going forward.

 

[Soonerpesek]

I guess I will have to find out for myself.

That is generally the way most of us really figure it out.....It is nice to hear other's experiences on matters.
But if you re-read the thread, I realize there are some non-answers to the OP's question, but there are also many responses to exactly what the OP was asking.
The question was asked how do some use the FCD and many posted how they used it........take those answers for research, and tell us how the FCD works for you....

 

[jmorris]

But how does even an "over done" taper crimp size the entire base of the bullet....?

The bullet is in the case, tightly if it’s sized and expanded properly. Force the case to a smaller diameter than it is at that moment and it will force the lead bullet also to a smaller diameter.

 

[LiveLife]

The bullet is in the case ... Force the case to a smaller diameter than it is at that moment and it will force the lead bullet also to a smaller diameter.

And if there is post-sizing, brass spring back could reduce neck tension. (I could do a myth busting thread to verify this)

But I do not want to hijack the thread any further and want to post that FCD as a "finishing die" certainly has its place in the reloading world as ammunition manufacturers use them (Hence "factory" crimp die). And for whatever reason if finished rounds need to be "fixed" to fully chamber in SAAMI spec chambers because the finished rounds' dimensions are out of spec, it does a great job for that purpose.

 

[Soonerpesek]

The bullet is in the case, tightly if it’s sized and expanded properly. Force the case to a smaller diameter than it is at that moment and it will force the lead bullet also to a smaller diameter.

Understood.........but a taper crimp dies doesn't size the whole case...
That is the part I don't quite comprehend....

 

[LiveLife]

Understood.........but a taper crimp dies doesn't size the whole case...That is the part I don't quite comprehend....

But a taper crimp die also don't have a carbide sizer ring.

Keep in mind that 9mm bullets come in various sizing from NATO spec .354" (Yes, true), .355" (Most common), .3555" (Speer TMJ/Gold Dot and RMR in-house jacketed that's used for ELEY match ammunition), .356" (Berry's MFG, Zero, Hornady HAP, most lead/coated lead bullets) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...re-sized-the-same.818806/page-2#post-10567453

And depending on bullet sizing and thickness of case wall (Including bullet tilt that elongates finished case neck), if bullet seated case neck outside diameter (OD) exceeds SAAMI spec dimension for chamber (Oblong for tilted bullet case), post-sizing could happen (That's what FCD was made to do). And if post sizing reduces the bullet diameter, lead core of bullet will remain reduced while brass spring back can decrease neck tension as demonstrated by this mythbusting thread using different diameter bullets and thickness of case wall - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

Yeah, I think we need to do a myth busting thread on this.

 

[.38 Special]

Just for what it is worth, @Bill_in_TR, my experience so far seems to match most of the respondents'. I am using the unaltered FCD per the instructions, which applies a moderate taper crimp (I am using plated bullets and don't want to really squish anything) while the post sizing function doesn't seem to accomplish anything, because the other dies are properly adjusted. Kind of hard to see what all the fuss is about, one way or the other - which, in my experience, is the usual reality for contentious subjects.

 

[LiveLife]

(I am using plated bullets and don't want to really squish anything) while the post sizing function doesn't seem to accomplish anything, because the other dies are properly adjusted.

And in your case, FCD is doing exactly what it was designed to do, be an "insurance" to ensure finished rounds are within SAAMI spec dimensions. But if your finished dimensions are within SAAMI specs because the dies are properly adjusted, then FCD post-sizing won't do anything.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I think I understand the pros and concerns using the FCD.

I choose not to use it and seat / crimp with one die.

But to each their own.

 

[Soonerpesek]

But a taper crimp die also don't have a carbide sizer ring.

Read post #42.......it is stated that a taper crimp has sized the bullets in the picture.....that is the question I am posing...

 

[LiveLife]

Read post #42.......it is stated that a taper crimp has sized the bullets in the picture.....that is the question I am posing...

I read post #42 and marks left on the bullet looks like they were factory pulled bullets as I have bought factory pulled bullets from various vendors in past years showing similar marks.

And as I posted already, ammunition manufacturers use many dies, including finishing dies to manufacture their ammunition. The fact that indentation around the bullet base are present means "something" caused those indentations and likely why they were pulled as "too much" of something was done to the bullets.

Sorry for the confusion as my response was specific to the FCD as related to this thread.

 

[Walkalong]

I use the FCD to resize with the carbide ring only - took the crimper out. It resizes revolver cases perfectly, whereas every other sizing die squeezes the case down excessively.

I had the opposite issue, finding a .38 sizer that sized brass enough. Maybe we need to work a trade.

 

[jmorris]

Understood.........but a taper crimp dies doesn't size the whole case...
That is the part I don't quite comprehend....

If it is high enough it won’t touch the case, if it can go lower than needed to remove the bell it can.

The die is tapered, move it lower and it sizes smaller, everything it was already in contact with.

So if you have a “mouth” measurement of…




And measure higher up inside, you can measure the OD it’s going to force the case to, set at that height over it.

Same goes for roll crimp, except it generally just rings right where the crimp is and not swaged smaller all the way to the base of the bullet.

 

[FROGO207]

I gotta throw in my experience. Over the years I have purchased die sets with the FCD included. So even though I had previously made really good ammo already "why not try to make it better" seemed logical. I tried using a FCD on several calibers and compared results. Did not work well with lead bullets unless the carbide insert was knocked out. Otherwise i found no difference in handgun ammo on target. So why add a step to the process that already worked.
With rifle ammo any crimping was detrimental to accuracy but a necessary evil with tube fed firearms for a saftey margin. These are my results and you should try things for yourself OP as your results may be different. Good luck out there.

 

[irving]

I checked the 3rd option, having recently removed the carbide ring from my 38/357 FCD.