A question for 1911 shooters
- Thread starter doubleh
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I’ve had a few 1911s, and on some I use a credit card and some I don’t. I’ve had a few that are almost impossible to get in without scratching because they are fit so tight, and others go right in. I do like my guns to look good and I don’t want any unnecessary scratches. Several years ago I used to try and use a file or manipulate the spring but someone told me to just use a credit card instead if it don’t go in easy. I’ve been doing that ever since, but only when necessary. The small keychain sized grocery store cards are easier to use.
Mainsail
Member
It's not binary....
Scratch = doesn't know what he/she is doing
No scratch = does know what he/she is doing
The scratch is an indicator that the person may not know what they're doing. So in my mind the price of the gun should reflect that uncertainty.
Scratch = doesn't know what he/she is doing
No scratch = does know what he/she is doing
The scratch is an indicator that the person may not know what they're doing. So in my mind the price of the gun should reflect that uncertainty.
hanno
Member
Nope. A scratch on a 1911 only indicates that there is a scratch on the 1911. Period. As I posted before, a young man put the scratch on my Colt while cleaning guns after a great day of shooting. He was showed the correct way to do it but he goofed. Big deal.
I keep my guns in good condition but something as minor as this is part of life's "minor dents and scratches."
Life is too short to get wound up about something so trivial.
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Iwsbull
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My dad was a WWII veteran my brother a Vietnam veteran, along with all of my cousins, uncles, ancestors, my dad explained it to me like this.
That is not a priceless piece of art it’s not a museum piece it’s a tool. If it is the first two why are you messing with it, put it up and look at it under glass. If it’s a tool take care of it make sure it is safe, functions to the best of its ability and USE IT.
I do that now and most any blemish on anything I own carries a memory some that make me happy some that bring a tear. The scratch across the wood and barrel on my BPS when my dad dropped it, I look at it now and smile and sometimes cry and no way would I remove it. The idiot mark on one of my 1911’s that my son put on it, he has ocular albinism and nystagmus, I wouldn’t swap it because it is a physical cue to my memories. My firearms are tools for hunting, enjoyment but mostly for memories.
That is not a priceless piece of art it’s not a museum piece it’s a tool. If it is the first two why are you messing with it, put it up and look at it under glass. If it’s a tool take care of it make sure it is safe, functions to the best of its ability and USE IT.
I do that now and most any blemish on anything I own carries a memory some that make me happy some that bring a tear. The scratch across the wood and barrel on my BPS when my dad dropped it, I look at it now and smile and sometimes cry and no way would I remove it. The idiot mark on one of my 1911’s that my son put on it, he has ocular albinism and nystagmus, I wouldn’t swap it because it is a physical cue to my memories. My firearms are tools for hunting, enjoyment but mostly for memories.
Winkman822
Member
I've not used a playing card, but when I had my stainless TRP, I would use a thin guitar pick since the plunger spring was extra stiff and/or slightly too long on that particular gun. Currently I have a couple of Wilson 1911's a Springfield Professional, and a Baer UTC, all have a little notch in the slide stop that guarantees that the slide stop can go straight in.
RainDodger
Member
Just learn to assemble the gun without damaging it. It's not that hard.
stevekozak
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I have never heard of this. If I was that worried about scratching my gun, I probably just wouldn't own one. Guns are for shooting not for looking at.
The scratch isn’t a big deal but I don’t like it if I’m shopping for a used gun. It’s not always an “idiot”scratch. Sometimes the tolerances with the plunger and the spring make it very difficult. If you can use a credit card or a guitar pic and slide it right in - why not?
Old Dog
Member
More'n a few really judgmental folks evident in this thread.
So, over the past fifty years I've owned... lots of 1911s.
And yeah, when I was young and didn't care about how my guns appeared, I'm pretty sure I was responsible for "idiot marks" on at least a couple of my first 1911s. Also pretty sure the scratches were not the result of my "not knowing what I was doing." I frankly just didn't care about a little scratch on the finish (and sometimes the post-range gun cleaning sessions coincided with the cocktail hour).
Now, when I got my first higher-end 1911 (a Les Baer), I was super careful and became dedicated to figuring out ways to protect the finish of my pistols. I used to use masking tape, and have actually used playing cards for reassembly.
I'm still OCD about reassembling pistols, but I now at least try to remember that sometimes, life happens.
For those of you who've been shooting 1911s for 911 years or so and have never, ever caused even the tiniest spec of damage to the finish of your pistols, great work! I am truly awed to be in the company of such masters.
But if you go to the range with me and are fortunate enough to get to shoot one of my pistols, don't categorize me as an idiot who doesn't know anything about 1911s if there's a little scratch on the frame. Maybe I didn't put it there; maybe I did.
So, over the past fifty years I've owned... lots of 1911s.
And yeah, when I was young and didn't care about how my guns appeared, I'm pretty sure I was responsible for "idiot marks" on at least a couple of my first 1911s. Also pretty sure the scratches were not the result of my "not knowing what I was doing." I frankly just didn't care about a little scratch on the finish (and sometimes the post-range gun cleaning sessions coincided with the cocktail hour).
Now, when I got my first higher-end 1911 (a Les Baer), I was super careful and became dedicated to figuring out ways to protect the finish of my pistols. I used to use masking tape, and have actually used playing cards for reassembly.
I'm still OCD about reassembling pistols, but I now at least try to remember that sometimes, life happens.
For those of you who've been shooting 1911s for 911 years or so and have never, ever caused even the tiniest spec of damage to the finish of your pistols, great work! I am truly awed to be in the company of such masters.
But if you go to the range with me and are fortunate enough to get to shoot one of my pistols, don't categorize me as an idiot who doesn't know anything about 1911s if there's a little scratch on the frame. Maybe I didn't put it there; maybe I did.
Gus Chiggins
Member
I dont shoot mine that often so I'm not sure if I've scratched it or not. It's in a safe in the basement and I'll be damned if I'm going down there to find out if I'm an idiot or not.
I was scratching my head also, and had to test myself.
Grasping the slide in correct take down position, I could flip the safety up ever so slightly. It did seem to take some pressure off the detent and allowing it to drop in easier.
Course the gun used to test already has a relief notch in the slide stop.
Jimfern
Member
I use a piece of painter's tape.
entropy
Member
I was taught two different ways, both service related;
When I was in ROTC, the Ranger types would sweep that slide stop right up the side in their never ending quest to lower the disassembly, reassembly time in their constant challenging each other to do so.
When I was in Armorer School, they taught us how to insert the slide stop without doing that, and fast enough that the couple milliseconds wouldn't make a difference.
When one thinks about this; one the modern battle field, if there is time to take down your secondary arm, you should have plenty of time to reassemble it correctly, because you should have already maintained your primary arm. (the pistol is nobody's primary arm anymore, except staff officers.)
We did train to reassemble the M16A1 and the M60 fast, which makes more sense. We were also taught to quickly discover the cause of malfunctions (beyond SPORTS) and remedy them with minimal tools. (what could be carried in the Armorer kit. In the field, I actually broke it down to what I could fit in a 3 mag pouch. The rest went in my ruck. I used 2 qt. canteen covers for 7 mag pouches, carried on the sides.)
I use no frame cover, none is needed. If you have time to tape the side, or hold a credit card or whatever to it, you have time to insert it straight in.
When I was in ROTC, the Ranger types would sweep that slide stop right up the side in their never ending quest to lower the disassembly, reassembly time in their constant challenging each other to do so.
When I was in Armorer School, they taught us how to insert the slide stop without doing that, and fast enough that the couple milliseconds wouldn't make a difference.
When one thinks about this; one the modern battle field, if there is time to take down your secondary arm, you should have plenty of time to reassemble it correctly, because you should have already maintained your primary arm. (the pistol is nobody's primary arm anymore, except staff officers.)
We did train to reassemble the M16A1 and the M60 fast, which makes more sense. We were also taught to quickly discover the cause of malfunctions (beyond SPORTS) and remedy them with minimal tools. (what could be carried in the Armorer kit. In the field, I actually broke it down to what I could fit in a 3 mag pouch. The rest went in my ruck. I used 2 qt. canteen covers for 7 mag pouches, carried on the sides.)
I use no frame cover, none is needed. If you have time to tape the side, or hold a credit card or whatever to it, you have time to insert it straight in.
Gus Chiggins
Member
Well... I went downstairs, moved my muzzleloaders out of the way, opened the safe, and there it was. The mark. The mark of the idiot! Very faint, but there nonetheless.
stevekozak
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Well, you are going to hell. According to some on this forum, anyways......
orionengnr
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Since every 1911 I've ever owned (but one) was bought used, most of them have a idiot mark.
For the most part, doesn't bother me. Much.
For the most part, doesn't bother me. Much.
Electricmo
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Idiot mark? That scratch tells me someone probably shoots and disassembles their guns for cleaning. They probably know that scratch gives the gun character. I have several 1911’s. They all have scratches from use. A couple even have the all dreaded idiot scratch. I guess they are junk now.
Howland937
Member
I've so far not put any scratches on mine (from assembling) but have seen plenty that had them. I've never used anything but my fingers...line up the hole in the frame and barrel link, slide stop in perpendicular to the frame...then allow it to rotate down a degree or 2 and push it in and up into place with just thumb pressure.
I have a number of 1911's, each of which have a variety of different slide stops on them. Some work better when re-installing the slide stop, some not so friendly.
The latter cause the scratch more frequently than the former.
I have not done an exhaustive research, but I've not really come up with what needs to be done to the slide stop where it installed easily and does not scratch the frame. Besides modifying the slide stop, the strength (spring rate) of the detent spring also has an effect. One of these days, I'll spend the time and figure out a fix.
Because of all the negative feed back on the scratch, I've taken measures to minimize the chance of scratching the frame. It adds some time to the reassembly of the pistol but I'll accept that.
The latter cause the scratch more frequently than the former.
I have not done an exhaustive research, but I've not really come up with what needs to be done to the slide stop where it installed easily and does not scratch the frame. Besides modifying the slide stop, the strength (spring rate) of the detent spring also has an effect. One of these days, I'll spend the time and figure out a fix.
Because of all the negative feed back on the scratch, I've taken measures to minimize the chance of scratching the frame. It adds some time to the reassembly of the pistol but I'll accept that.
I put the idiot scratch on my SR 1911. It was very light but it did bother me. It has a matte stainless finish. A few rubs with a scotch-brite pad made it disappear. It is a small thing but it bugged me. I have since learned to line everything up & slide it straight in. In all honesty it isn't the end of the world either way. If a gun is carried & used it will probably get dinged up some but at the same time I don't want to ding it up.
Lafitte
Member
I don't use a card (or anything else) and have no "bubba marks" on any of my 1911's. I do have one that the slide stop will hang up when assembling but it is no trouble to avoid the issue.
Lafitte
Lafitte
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