Absurd firearm "knowledge"

[Stiletto Null]

So why do they have sights?

(Correct answer for AKs: back scratchers. )

 

[Quinch]

Tory?

 

[Strings]

>I found this link that has it listed as .357 Automag as another name for the round.<

I've never heard it refered to as such, and it would be INCREDIBLY incorrect to do so, as there IS a .357 Automag (chambered in the Automag line of pistols from the '70s).

 

[dfaugh]

I found this link that has it listed as .357 Automag as another name for the round.

http://www.answers.com/topic/357-sig

Is this a common name for the .357 Sig?

Sorry, not even close. My buddy has one of the few .357 Automag guns (which I've shot---pretty cool)--He has to handload for it. IIRC,the cartridges start life as a .308 (or anything with a similar base diameter) which are shortened, tapered, etc. When finished it looks like a small rifle round (or kinda like an FN 5.7 on steroids. uses a "pointy tip" bullet) WAY more powerful than most pistol rounds, including .357 mag. I THINK he said muzzle velocity of over 2000 fps. Surprisingly, the gun is not unpleasant to shoot (I expected a wrist-breaker), but it is QUITE heavy for a handgun. Although he may have had "mild" loads in it when I shot it.

 

[Strings]

I can't speak for the .357, but I know the .44AMP is designed to throw a 240gr bullet @1250fps... which is INCREDIBLY easy on the wrists. The AMP is uually the gun new female shooters want to play with more...

 

[MachIVshooter]

Didn't Sig Sauer market the .357 sig as having magnum performance in an autoloader?

Yes, they did. And it does come close to most of the sedate factory loads available for the .357 S&W mag. But this claim would be the same as saying that the 10mm is the autoloader equvalent of the .41 mag. While most factory .41 mag loads are in the 700 ft/lb arena, it is capable of over 1,100ft/lbs when loaded to it's full potential, while the 10mm maxes at about 800.

I found this link that has it listed as .357 Automag as another name for the round.

The .357 automag is a wildcat based on the .44 automag, which is in turn a cut-down, formed and reamed .308 (or '06) case. The .357 Automag has roughly double the power of the .357 Sig. I believe only the now-defunct Automag pistols (not the Arcadia Machine Tool/Javelina automag series, which chambered .22 WMR, .30 Carbine, .45 Win Mag and .50 AE) chambered either round (though the Wildey comes to mind as a previous host also).

 

[Art Eatman]

Not long after David Brinkley retired as "The most trusted name in news broadcasting", I caught a TV segment of him speaking to Univ. of Miami (Fla) students on the subject of gun control.

Not verbatim; paraphrased: "I was an infantryman in WW II, and I know something about guns. The reason that assault weapons like the AK 47 can't be used in hunting is that they are too powerful, and destroy the game."

In the Infrantry? What, Company Clerk?

Art

 

[Zach S]

Lets not forget that you can file the firing pin on just about any rifle and make it fully automatic.

I havent heard that one in a while, but I sure heard it a lot.

[edited for typo. note to self: dont talk to someone while typing]

 

[Archie]

Couple of random comments on previous comments...

Garlic on bullets. From what I've read, this originated with the Sicilian Mafia. Preparing for assasinations, the shooters would smear garlic on the bullets in the theory the garlic would poison the victim. I don't think there's much medical backing for this, but some folks believed it.

Suppressed shotguns. I saw advertisements for them in Shotgun News in the late '70s or so. They are of course covered by the NFA and all that. I never shot one, so I can't testify how effective they are, but shotguns (as has been mentioned) are not high pressure anyway, and should be fairly easy to suppress. However, the supressor can adds length to the weapon; maybe that's why they never really caught on. I didn't see them advertised very long, only a few months.

Potato supressor. Oh, golly. Another great story from prior to WWII. Originally, this worked on .22 rifles. However, one had to hollow out the end of the potato - raw potatoe by the way - and use the hollow as the mount on the barrel. The potatoe would then muffle the sound of the report. In my experience, the sound of the exploding potato is louder than the report of the 22.

Yes, it did appear on an episode of CSI. The villain simply held a potato in front of a .45 pistol and shot through it. The device muffled the sound of the report and the potato did not disintergrate. Does anyone know why it worked? (Trick question, of course.) It worked because the script writer said it worked. This is television folks!!

Do not try this at home. If you have to try, put the potato on a box or something DO NOT HOLD THE POTATO IN YOUR HAND! and hold the gun up close. Take a small whisk broom, dust pan and plastic bag to clean up afterwards, okay?

Tumbling M16 bullets. Another great myth. No, M16 bullets do not tumble in the air on the way to the target. I once asked a fellow Marine (who thought they did) if he remembered pulling butts the month before when we qualified. He did. I asked him how many rounds he scored on the targets were sideways? Or were they all round and point on. He replied, "Well, they're timed to be point on at 100 and 200 yards." I gave up at that point.

But they do not - normally - tumble in flight. I don't think that many tumble on impact, for that matter. But that's a matter for a medical examiner.

My favorite ignorant firearm myth?
Dip any bullet in teflon and it will penetrate bullet proof vests.

Yeah.

 

[Zach S]

My favorite ignorant firearm myth?
Dip any bullet in teflon and it will penetrate bullet proof vests.

That must be true! Per NC GS 14‑34.3, Teflon coated bullets are illegal in NC!

I've asked a few people why the teflon makes them go through body armor, you'd be amazed at some of the answers I get. Most said something like it makes them slide through the vest easier, while some would make up so much technical BS to prove their point that you'd think they were meant to be in politics.

 

[taliv]

i wonder if i designed a gun that shot frying pans, if everyone in possession of a teflon coated frying pan in NC would suddenly become a felon? i guess not, since it's not a federal law

 

[Tearlachblair]

...but it worked against Robert De Niro in Ronin!!!

You mean coating teflon on bullets DOESN'T give them the ability to penetrate a bulletproof vest?!?!


THAT MEANS THAT EVERYTHING I'VE LEARNED FROM MY HOURS OF MOVIE WATCHING IS A LIE!!!!! What'll I do now? Everything I know about firearms I've learned from Hollywood!!!

haha just kidding.

 

[Archie]

Since I started it up....

The 'teflon bullet' myth, like most myths, has a tenuous basis in fact.

Years and years ago - back when real cops carried revolvers - there was a small ammo company called "KTW". I think I used to know what it stood for, but I don't remember now.

KTW made special handgun ammunition designed for law enforcement use and sold only directly to law enforcement agencies and officers upon proof of occupation. The ammo was designed to penetrate automobiles and barricades and incidently, vests. The projectile was solid bronze, as I recall and rather pointy. To achieve a good seal in the bore and to protect the bore from the possible erosive effects of the bronze bullet, the bullets were coated with teflon.

This was the bullet and ammunition 'discovered' by the anti-American, anti-lawman, anti-freedom, lying bastids (my apologies, Art's Gramma; sometimes I got to call 'em as I see 'em) at NBC and published on network television as "Cop-Killer Bullets". The technologically challenged types at NBC made much to-do about the teflon coating.

From there, it was down hill.

Federal made some ammo designed for indoor range practise thereafter. It was cast or swedged lead bullets coated in teflon. The teflon was to prevent or at least mitigate airborne lead particles from the powder charge vaporizing the base of the bullet.

I don't know who the technically and veracity challenged media dipstick was who 'discovered' these, but they too were hailed as 'Cop-Killer' bullets. After all, they were teflon coated, too. The Federal practise ammo was as effective at penetrating body armor as any other lead round nose ammo of the type. But that didn't make any difference; it was teflon coated.

I found more information if anyone is interested.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html



Which leads me to one of my favorite myths of the American culture, gun related or not:

The news media is unbiased and honest.

 

[orionengnr]

Which leads me to one of my favorite myths of the American culture, gun related or not:The news media is unbiased and honest.

Fortunately, I don't think too many people believe in that myth anymore. Some may say it, but believe it?

 

[evan price]

Bruce Willis:That punk pulled a GLOCK 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines, and it costs more than you make here in a month.

What?!?!? You mean Bruce Willis LIED to us in Die Hard II?? There is NO Glock 7's around?? Oh man! I feel violated!


Just last week I ran into an older fella who claimed he CCW'ed twin WWII 1911's... and he was such a good shot that he could draw them both and shoot simultaneously through the same hole in the target at 100yds, dead center the "X" ring. But the day I talked to him, his arthritis was bothering him so he wasn't going to try it. And his left elbow was bruised from working in the yard. And he didn't have "his" ammo with him that day. And was shooting a different gun and didn't appear to have twin 1911's on his person at the time.

Or maybe he was so full of sh*t he squished when he walked. You decide.


(Speaking of movie stuff. Any truck drivers in the THR audience? In the 1989 James Bond (Tim Dalton) movie where he goes after the cocaine smugglers, someone severs the air brake lines with a machete between a semi tractor and the trailer... and suddenly the semi has NO BRAKES!!!! Remembering the times when I attempted to move trailers before air pressure built up & ROFLMAO)

 

[grislyatoms]

Speaking of movie stuff. Any truck drivers in the THR audience? In the 1989 James Bond (Tim Dalton) movie where he goes after the cocaine smugglers, someone severs the air brake lines with a machete between a semi tractor and the trailer... and suddenly the semi has NO BRAKES!!!! Remembering the times when I attempted to move trailers before air pressure built up & ROFLMAO)

Haven't driven in years due to a back injury. Yes, I can see the problem here.

We had one yo-yo driving a loaded rock bucket 55 mph down an interstate decide to pull out that diamond shaped button on the dash, "Just to see what would happen".

He actually SPUN the shoes inside the drums!

Same yo-yo also had has bed up slapping his tail gate and pulled down a telephone (or some other kind of cable) across a four lane interstate highway. Multiple car pileups on both sides of the interstate. They fired him after that one.

 

[whm1974]

My favorite is when I hear that the AK and M16 series military style rifles were not designed to be "aimed". but rather they just spray their target area with bullets, so they kill many people. Thats why they need those large dangerous magazines!
Today 12:04 AM

Right those two dudes who did the north hollywood shootout didn't kill anyone.

"I was an infantryman in WW II, and I know something about guns. The reason that assault weapons like the AK 47 can't be used in hunting is that they are too powerful, and destroy the game."

Just because someone has been in the service doesn't make him an expert in weapons, or even tacites.

-Bill

It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines

I don't hear to much about how "plastic" guns can go through an X-ray machine nowdays. Of course "plastic" frame guns are much more commonplace then back in the 80's.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

You may have read stories about attackers disarming people who are armed with Beretta 92-series pistols by simply disassembling the gun (i.e., removing the slide) in their hands. A co-worker, when during a conversation I told him that my primary carry gun is a Glock 19, said that Glocks are a POS because you can pull the slide off in the same manner. Given the way a Glock slide disassembles, this is physically impossible, and if an attacker did try it, a 9mm JHP would surely dissuade him. I might have demonstrated this (gun unloaded, of course ), but I don't play games with guns, so I just ignored him.

 

[Wes Janson]

I actually was talking to someone once, whose job involved operating a metal detector and an x-ray machine, and when I mentioned the Glock they reiterated the belief that it is invisible to detection. When I pointed out that the slide, barrel, ammunition, and springs are all made of metal, they went "Oh, yeah, you're right" and realized the foolishness of that urban legend.

 

[Snap]

Even with a Beretta, the idea is ludicrous. If he's that close and of hostile intent, and you aren't busily introducing him to his maker, something has gone terribly wrong. Besides, even Jet Li didn't pull that one off without some help. There's stills from the Lethal Weapon 4 movie showing the takedown lever already down when he pulls the slide off Mel Gibson's 92.

 

[whm1974]

A co-worker, when during a conversation I told him that my primary carry gun is a Glock 19, said that Glocks are a POS because you can pull the slide off in the same manner.

Even if a BG could do this with most pistols, That's still assuming that 1. his victim would let him get close enough to do this, 2. He's too quick for his victim to shoot him first.

It would be much easyer for the BG to snatch the gun out of someone's hand then to the above.

-Bill

 

[SAG0282]

!!! Hey SAG0282 I notice you have a Beretta PX4 Storm!!, I had a few come through the store and I really liked the style and how comfortable they were!! How do you like it and what caliber is it???

Hey sorry for my late response Bergamino, sorta missed it.

I love it so far, it's been great. The grip and feel is top-notch......very well-designed handgun. Not diggin' the DA trigger, especially with the half-cock detent, but my understanding is that it gets better with time. I have the "F" variant 9mm.....I think though I'll be converting it to "G" w/ stealth controls at some point. I really like the sights and sight picture as well, and I dig the looks.

Sieg

 

[Don Gwinn]

OK, punks, top THIS!

http://arnisgunkata.tripod.com/index.html

I present for your edification the Reverend Marvin "Knife" Sotelo. He is the Priest of the East Los Angeles Church of Satan. Well, hey, to each his own, right?

Well, he's also an Arnis Master. Arnis is a well-known Filipino weapon-based art that's pretty good with sticks and knives. Nothing wrong with that. . .but he's a 19-year-old Master. 3rd-Degree Master, that is. It turns out that he became a Master by deciding that he's a Master; in Arnis, he explains, you simply decide when you're ready to be a Master. That must be how Remy Presas did it.
Hmmm.

Wait, did he say "Arnis Bumaril?" Is there such a thing as Arnis Bumaril? Well, sure there is. "Knife" created it by blending two martial arts to create his own system. Which two arts?
Well, Arnis and GunKata.

Hey, that's funny, because there's this movie, Equilibrium, where they do something call GunKata too. It's pretty cool and. . . . oh, that's the GunKata he meant.
He claims he'll teach you Gunkata.

Anyway, here are some awesome quotes:

If you want an example of what Arnis Bumaril is buy or rent Equilibrium (recommended), Wager (recommended)(located in Links page), The Matrix Movies, The Killer, Desperado, City on Fire, Hard Boiled, A Better Tomorrow, Bullet in the Head, Reservoir Dogs, Leon The Professional, Die Hard Movies, Hitman, La Femme Nikita, The Bodyguard from Beijing, Assassins, Last Man Standing, Tombstone, Kill Bill Vol. 1 & 2, and Bulletproof Monk. Also feel free to contribute to this site with your own tips.

The premise of firearm training is to maximize efficiency in both speed, accuracy and damage, while avoiding harm to the individual. This is achieved by wielding two fire-arms and intuitively shooting the antagonist likely to cause most probable death - protagonist's are trained to shoot lethally with or without using any sights or aiming in the traditional sense. The protagonist is trained to know exactly where the antagonist is before he or she gets to their destination, allowing the protagonists to plan their movements, thus giving them the ability to move out of the trajectory of oncoming bullets and take out the attacker with precision, but there are no guarantee's that you will actually dodge bullets its all based on intuition, anticipation, and action, "Responsibility to the responsible." So our form of GunKata or Gun Form is called Arnis Bumaril to keep the filipino roots to Arnis Bumaril, Bumaril is tagalog (filipino language) for "to shoot" sounds only logical...

Concealment techniques are also fencing and crouching postures, and basic acrobatic maneuvers.

Primary Skills: Dodge (if your lucky), Gun Self Defense, High Risk Entry Tactics

Secondary Skills: Guerilla Tactics, Basic Acrobatics, if necessary any other form of martial arts

Optional Skills: Armoury, any melee weapon

Maneuvers: Dual-Attack, Off-Hand Weapon Training

Cinematic Advantages (BULLSHIDO): Enhanced Dodge, Hyper-Reflexes, Hyper-Strength, Sharpshooter, Trained by a Master, Double handgun attacks

Recommended Attributes: Intelligence and Martial Art Skill

Recommended Advantages: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Peripheral Vision, Strong Will

Once a student has learned the basics the only way for him to advance in his art is through combat, so beginners don't stay beginners long, they are either killed or they become better. A master is a truly magnificent sight in a gun battle.".

If you consider army special forces and police training as a kind of "applied martial art" then here's your answer:

Most modern armies, police and anti-terrorist forces have training programs for personnel who are supposed to engage their opponents in close-range combat. Such training progams usually combine pistol training with tactical trainig and a few other kinds of training.

Basically, you are not only taught to shoot well, you are also taught how to move, look out and do your job while making it more difficult to shoot at you. Speaking of weapons training in particular, the students in such schools train to achieve intuitive aiming: you shoot a gun by simply pointing it in the right direction, without of going through all the trouble of aiming it. Once you've mastered intuitive aiming, you start training shooting "with both hands" or as the Russians call it "po-makedonski". This involves being able to intuitively aim two pistols. Students also get trained in rapid firing: they have to hit a target that suddenly appears for a brief period of time and then quickly disappears. There is not a whole lot of people who can do this, it's not anybody's fault, it's that everybody's nervous system is slightly different. The percentage of students that graduate is usually low.

You can all just thank me later.

 

[Atchafalaya]

supressed shotgun

Perhaps the shotgun has a compensator on it? Although I can't see why anyone would spend the money for a that on a truncated shotgun. What make is it, Purdley perhaps???

 

[daysleeprx]

lol...damn you Don. I wasted an hour reading that clown's website.

THAT SITE DELIVERS! (laughs that is)