AllAmerican
Member
Tell him you'll reload him his required amount of ammo but that its gonna cost him two Kimbers.
Acquaintance want me to provide his ammo..
- Thread starter Shooter973
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outerlimit beat me to it, He's being the jerk here so you have no reason to beat around the bush, just come out and say "sorry, can't help you" and then you can add " there's a lot of online supliers that will ship to your door, not much shortage there".
www.ammoman.com
www.aimsurplus.com
www.midwayusa.com
www.ammoman.com
www.aimsurplus.com
www.midwayusa.com
moooose102
Member
just tell hin what the starkist folks tell charlie tuna. "sorry charlie!"
Davionmaximus
Member
This may help...
I am an auto technician by trade... EVERYONE I ever meet immediately wants me to work on thier cars.
The technique i use is simply to say "No" sorry.. I already have a Job.
It will work in this instance too. You have a job I am sure.. and reloading ammo for other people is NOT it.
Tell him "Reloading is a hobby not your job".
He can still find ammo if he really wants it.
I am an auto technician by trade... EVERYONE I ever meet immediately wants me to work on thier cars.
The technique i use is simply to say "No" sorry.. I already have a Job.
It will work in this instance too. You have a job I am sure.. and reloading ammo for other people is NOT it.
Tell him "Reloading is a hobby not your job".
He can still find ammo if he really wants it.
catspa
Member
Hey, S973.
As other posters have covered, if you want the guy to buzz off, there are plenty of reasons you can give. If you haven't seen him in 5 years, why would you care about how you come across to him? So he thinks you're a jerk, so what?
OTOH, what if you really do think he's a nice guy and want to help him out? Or maybe you think that him owing you a favor could come in handy sometime. For whatever reason, if you don't want to just blow him off, I think you've got some options.
First off, you bought your components at a time when they were readily available, maybe you even got a good deal on them. In other words, you provided then for your future needs or wants. This guy did not. So to be fair, whatever of yours gets used up for him, he should pay a price that reflects not only the increased cost of components, but the fact that to replace them (right now) you would have to spend lots of time scrunging them up.
Second, you also invested in all the necessary gear at a time when you could pick and choose what you wanted. That opportunity isn't available to him now, but that's not your fault. I guess what I'm getting at is, he's approaching you in a state of mild desperation and asking for a favor. Just because he's desperate, brought on by his own choices, doesn't obligate you to compromise your situation to help him.
Third, you might look at what other obligations you have and see if you can reasonably invest some time and effort to help the guy.
Four, you don't want to end up in a situation where you've got a lot invested and he's got nothing, so at each stage of the process, you want him doing his part, and preferably a little bit more.
Okay, so if you still want to do something for him after all that (and you already have the dies etc. to load what he wants), here's how I would go about it.
"Hey, Biff. S973 here, how's it goin' bud? Hey, we talked the other day about reloading together, and I think there's a way I can help you out some. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but here's what I can do for ya.
First thing we do is make a list of the powders we have load data for, what size primers, what weight bullets, etc. Then we find all the sources of ammo and components in the area, and you put them on speed dial and call them every other day or so and ask for what you want. All the shops, not just the cheap places like Walmart. It's too late now to be picky over a few bucks, so even if they only have a hundred large pistol primers, you head over and pick 'em up. I know, it's a hassle, but it's better to get your components little by little than not at all.
Next, you've been saving all your brass, haven't you? Shiite, man. That's the only reusable part. Okay, when you go to the range, look at what other shooters are shooting. Ask if you can gather up their brass when they're done. Ask the range officer if you can buy fired brass in your calibers, even if it's only 100, it'll help.
Meanwhile, Biff, here's what I'll be doing. I really don't have enough components set by for you and me both, but I'll call my gunny friends that reload and put out the word on what we're looking for. If they call me back and say, "Okay, I can spare you a pound of Unique (or whatever)," you and I beat feet over there and buy it. You're the new guy, you're just getting into reloading, thanks a lot Gunny for helping us out with that.
Now, here's the thing about reloading. You don't just stuff powder in 1000 of something and call it good. What we need to do is look for some commercial "duty" rounds for you to CCW with, and we try to approximate that in our reloads. We want to tailor the load to your gun. We load 50 rounds and then go shoot them, then we load 50 more with 1/2 a grain more powder and shoot those. We change bullets and powder and crimp until we find out what your guns like to shoot, and then when we're ready to load 1000 of them, we're pretty confident that they'll work.
Thing is, Biff, I can't legally reload for you. What I can legally do is show you how it's done (while eating your pizza and drinking your beverages), and help you do it, and you'll be building knowledge and experience for when you get your own reloading gear. If you just want a big swat of ammo, get in line with everybody else. If you want to learn about reloading, I can help you, but there's more to it than most people think, and you have to consider it a learning experience. Anyway, think that over for a week or so and let me know, okay?"
That will show you if he's serious about reloading or if he just wants a back-door source of ammo. My personal feeling is, in this situation, your time is at least as valuable as his, so don't get suckered into doing all the work and him getting all the benefit. And I sure wouldn't use up my components hoping he will replace them someday - the market is too volatile right now, and might be more in the future.
But if he digs in and comes up with some stuff, and learns the basics, you may end up with a good reloading and shooting partner. Really it's up to you whether to extend the offer.
Parker
As other posters have covered, if you want the guy to buzz off, there are plenty of reasons you can give. If you haven't seen him in 5 years, why would you care about how you come across to him? So he thinks you're a jerk, so what?
OTOH, what if you really do think he's a nice guy and want to help him out? Or maybe you think that him owing you a favor could come in handy sometime. For whatever reason, if you don't want to just blow him off, I think you've got some options.
First off, you bought your components at a time when they were readily available, maybe you even got a good deal on them. In other words, you provided then for your future needs or wants. This guy did not. So to be fair, whatever of yours gets used up for him, he should pay a price that reflects not only the increased cost of components, but the fact that to replace them (right now) you would have to spend lots of time scrunging them up.
Second, you also invested in all the necessary gear at a time when you could pick and choose what you wanted. That opportunity isn't available to him now, but that's not your fault. I guess what I'm getting at is, he's approaching you in a state of mild desperation and asking for a favor. Just because he's desperate, brought on by his own choices, doesn't obligate you to compromise your situation to help him.
Third, you might look at what other obligations you have and see if you can reasonably invest some time and effort to help the guy.
Four, you don't want to end up in a situation where you've got a lot invested and he's got nothing, so at each stage of the process, you want him doing his part, and preferably a little bit more.
Okay, so if you still want to do something for him after all that (and you already have the dies etc. to load what he wants), here's how I would go about it.
"Hey, Biff. S973 here, how's it goin' bud? Hey, we talked the other day about reloading together, and I think there's a way I can help you out some. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but here's what I can do for ya.
First thing we do is make a list of the powders we have load data for, what size primers, what weight bullets, etc. Then we find all the sources of ammo and components in the area, and you put them on speed dial and call them every other day or so and ask for what you want. All the shops, not just the cheap places like Walmart. It's too late now to be picky over a few bucks, so even if they only have a hundred large pistol primers, you head over and pick 'em up. I know, it's a hassle, but it's better to get your components little by little than not at all.
Next, you've been saving all your brass, haven't you? Shiite, man. That's the only reusable part. Okay, when you go to the range, look at what other shooters are shooting. Ask if you can gather up their brass when they're done. Ask the range officer if you can buy fired brass in your calibers, even if it's only 100, it'll help.
Meanwhile, Biff, here's what I'll be doing. I really don't have enough components set by for you and me both, but I'll call my gunny friends that reload and put out the word on what we're looking for. If they call me back and say, "Okay, I can spare you a pound of Unique (or whatever)," you and I beat feet over there and buy it. You're the new guy, you're just getting into reloading, thanks a lot Gunny for helping us out with that.
Now, here's the thing about reloading. You don't just stuff powder in 1000 of something and call it good. What we need to do is look for some commercial "duty" rounds for you to CCW with, and we try to approximate that in our reloads. We want to tailor the load to your gun. We load 50 rounds and then go shoot them, then we load 50 more with 1/2 a grain more powder and shoot those. We change bullets and powder and crimp until we find out what your guns like to shoot, and then when we're ready to load 1000 of them, we're pretty confident that they'll work.
Thing is, Biff, I can't legally reload for you. What I can legally do is show you how it's done (while eating your pizza and drinking your beverages), and help you do it, and you'll be building knowledge and experience for when you get your own reloading gear. If you just want a big swat of ammo, get in line with everybody else. If you want to learn about reloading, I can help you, but there's more to it than most people think, and you have to consider it a learning experience. Anyway, think that over for a week or so and let me know, okay?"
That will show you if he's serious about reloading or if he just wants a back-door source of ammo. My personal feeling is, in this situation, your time is at least as valuable as his, so don't get suckered into doing all the work and him getting all the benefit. And I sure wouldn't use up my components hoping he will replace them someday - the market is too volatile right now, and might be more in the future.
But if he digs in and comes up with some stuff, and learns the basics, you may end up with a good reloading and shooting partner. Really it's up to you whether to extend the offer.
Parker
There is a easier way, just send him to a gun show or gun shop, its fairly easy to find ammo in any of those calibers at either. The really difficult one is a budget 380acp, which I can only find at shows. What is difficult to find is cheap ammo at walmart or budget brands online, but it sounds like he is not looking at budget ammo anyways.
Has he not visited a gun show or area gun shops. All the calibers listed have been available at every show I've been to. All could be found in local shops also. The thoughest one is the 380acp, local shops here only have Carbon in. Its budget ammo that difficult to find, doesn't sound like that is a requirement for him.
IndianaBoy
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 1,551
You sound like you are having a hard time not being a pushover.
Tell him no. Plain and simple. Your components are for your shooting.
He can go buy his own damn ammo.
I let friends use my Dillon with their own components. I don't use my time, money and effort to make ammo for some schmuck I haven't talked to in five years.
Edit:
Also: He sounds like the jerk. Tell him you have better things to do than reload ammo for him at cost. Not to mention the illegality of the issue.
Tell him no. Plain and simple. Your components are for your shooting.
He can go buy his own damn ammo.
I let friends use my Dillon with their own components. I don't use my time, money and effort to make ammo for some schmuck I haven't talked to in five years.
Edit:
Also: He sounds like the jerk. Tell him you have better things to do than reload ammo for him at cost. Not to mention the illegality of the issue.
I reload from time to time for friends but I have rules they have to follow.
#1 they must fully understand that I can't be held liable for damages to the firearm, or damage to themself and we all have agreed on this.
#2 they can only fire the rounds with me present. All the reloaded ammo stays with me so they couldn't shot without me there even if they wanted to.
#3 they don't pay me for ammo but contributions of lead, primers and powder need to be made from time to time.
#4 they all help pickup the brass when we are done.
But I wouldn't load any ammo for anyone as self defence rounds.
#1 they must fully understand that I can't be held liable for damages to the firearm, or damage to themself and we all have agreed on this.
#2 they can only fire the rounds with me present. All the reloaded ammo stays with me so they couldn't shot without me there even if they wanted to.
#3 they don't pay me for ammo but contributions of lead, primers and powder need to be made from time to time.
#4 they all help pickup the brass when we are done.
But I wouldn't load any ammo for anyone as self defence rounds.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Regardless of whether the dude asking the favor is a jerk or not, it's illegal if you accept money in exchange for producing the ammo unless you possess the appropriate licenses. TexasRifleman pointed that out way back in post #14.
No other reason need be given.
It's illegal.
We don't do known illegal things.
No other reason need be given.
It's illegal.
We don't do known illegal things.
Ed Ames
Member
You could get the license and sell the ammo.
I mean, if he has money it might be worthwhile.
I mean, if he has money it might be worthwhile.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Downside to that is that once you take money for it you're on the hook for all the taxes and product liability issues that come with it.
I looked at doing some selling of extra reloads when I shot IPSC heavy many years ago and there didn't seem to be any way to make it profitable on a small scale.
Ed Ames
Member
Yeah, probably not profitable... but the ammo market is a bit on the strange side right now. Maybe someone with supplies set by could make a tidy sum in the short haul and restock in 6 months when supply prices normalize.
That's assuming inflation doesn't eat the profits of course.
Never mind.
That's assuming inflation doesn't eat the profits of course.
Never mind.
Pass on that action. Tell him to buy factory ammo he needs - where he can find it. Then, encourage him to reload on his own equipment, and after enough repeating this - tell him there's ton's of outlets, and mentor's willing to help - he'll stop asking you, and ask someone else.
SharpsDressedMan
member
At this point in time, you should ask that he supply you with the components, and sign a disclaimer, and/or have him come over and load the ammo together with you, that way he is liable for his own. Since he can't come up with components, he will just go away. You could still bill him for labor along with him supplying the components, and put all the ammo costs on him, without reducing your supplies. I have lots of components and ammo on hand, but right now, I'm not selling or loading anything for anyone unless they go out and spend their money on the supplies. It will easily be 6-12 months before anyone can get stuff from backorders placed right now around here. Guard your own stash. You worked to be self sufficent, and you don't owe anyone else any of your ammo.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I really hope that those of you predicting a return to normal availability in 6 months are right.
I'm not holding out that much hope personally
I'm not holding out that much hope personally
GotCoffee
Member
catspa said basiclly what I was thinking. Show him what components he will need(him buying them) and let him use your equipment and show him how its done. You may get another person into reloading and he will have done it himself with a little advice and direction from you! Unless(hes a jerk or whatever)and you really dont want to help this guy out. Then use the legal excuse!
There's been at lot of good opinions and information given. I wouldn't do it if I were you. Too many things just don't sound right, possibly illegal. Plus, he's an acquaintance. Not your friend, right? A true one? And you've "known" of him for five years.
I'm just assuming here... you said you've never been to his house. But he's been to yours and knows where to find you? On top of that, he "just shows up" at your house?
You stated he's "quite well to do" and your blue collar (I've worn all kinds of colors myself and have never been "well to do"). Then he can most certainly get off his ass and buy factory loaded and/or learn to roll his own like the rest of us. But if he's "kosher", and he buys his own loading equipment, books, and components... I'm reminded of "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." Maybe then, show him how to do it.
I don't mean to sound coarse or harsh, that's just the way I see it.
I'm just assuming here... you said you've never been to his house. But he's been to yours and knows where to find you? On top of that, he "just shows up" at your house?
You stated he's "quite well to do" and your blue collar (I've worn all kinds of colors myself and have never been "well to do"). Then he can most certainly get off his ass and buy factory loaded and/or learn to roll his own like the rest of us. But if he's "kosher", and he buys his own loading equipment, books, and components... I'm reminded of "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." Maybe then, show him how to do it.
I don't mean to sound coarse or harsh, that's just the way I see it.
scythefwd
Member
You could always do what I do. I am a system administrator (well I was and I still have to work with that team on their tickets till my back fill gets here) and a network engineer.
When someone invariably asks if I can help them with their personal PC, I say sure, but you will have to pay my consulting fee and it has to be off work hours. I work night shift, so I sleep most of the day while people are at work / am at work when they are home. My consulting fee is 200 an hour, minimum 1 hour charge. I have yet to have anyone take me up after they realized that I wasn't joking. I my opinion, if you want cheap IT help, go to the geek squad.
I would have the guy go out and purchase all of his own reloading stuff (except for the press if you are nice) like dies, powder, manuals, bullets, brass, primers, pocket reamers, etc. and tell him to contact me when he has what he needs. Then charge him for the rent of your equipment and for the reloading class.
When someone invariably asks if I can help them with their personal PC, I say sure, but you will have to pay my consulting fee and it has to be off work hours. I work night shift, so I sleep most of the day while people are at work / am at work when they are home. My consulting fee is 200 an hour, minimum 1 hour charge. I have yet to have anyone take me up after they realized that I wasn't joking. I my opinion, if you want cheap IT help, go to the geek squad.
I would have the guy go out and purchase all of his own reloading stuff (except for the press if you are nice) like dies, powder, manuals, bullets, brass, primers, pocket reamers, etc. and tell him to contact me when he has what he needs. Then charge him for the rent of your equipment and for the reloading class.
Silverado6x6
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2009
- Messages
- 195
Something to think about is the reality of certain people using this as a form of blackmail, either you supply them and keep on doing so or they will be working with the people that wish you to not have anything. Sadly some people will act like if they cannot have the same fruits as you then nobody can have any fruits from the tree.
woad_yurt
Member
OP:
Copy and paste some links, email 'em to him and tell him to start ordering. Teach him if you feel so inclined but don't supply him.
Clifford:
You can have them agree to dozens of conditions but that doesn't clear you if one of your rounds damages them or their property. If you give them ammo that does damage, they can sue and win, regardless of what was agreed upon. No contract is enforceable if the conditions of the contract run counter to criminal or civil codes.
Ever see the dry cleaner's sign that says "Not responsible for lost or damaged items?" A lot of them have it printed on the back of the ticket they give you when you drop off your items. Well, according to the law, they are responsible if they do damage or lose your goods. You just have to prove it, is all.
Copy and paste some links, email 'em to him and tell him to start ordering. Teach him if you feel so inclined but don't supply him.
Clifford:
You can have them agree to dozens of conditions but that doesn't clear you if one of your rounds damages them or their property. If you give them ammo that does damage, they can sue and win, regardless of what was agreed upon. No contract is enforceable if the conditions of the contract run counter to criminal or civil codes.
Ever see the dry cleaner's sign that says "Not responsible for lost or damaged items?" A lot of them have it printed on the back of the ticket they give you when you drop off your items. Well, according to the law, they are responsible if they do damage or lose your goods. You just have to prove it, is all.
Tell him you aren't interested in money, but you would be interested in trading your components for sexual favors.
Be VERY graphic. Maybe read some "literature" first, to prep -- if you can stomach it.
My prediction: Problem solved, permanently.
Be VERY graphic. Maybe read some "literature" first, to prep -- if you can stomach it.
My prediction: Problem solved, permanently.
L1D3N
Member
Just be truthful with him about it and if he doesn't back off it's time to tell him off, not in a good way. I don't like people that try to manipulate me into doing things like that... especially if you hardly know the person. No way with the way things are going now will I be depleting my stored ammo, food etc. for anyone that isn't my close family. You make it sound like he looks at you as the local neighborhood drug dealer and he needs a fix bad. LOL!
CoRoMo
Member
If he knows that this is against federal law, and he's okay with asking you to do this... it is time to act like a jerk.
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