AG Holder fires back

[JFrame]

It evidently gets worse (according to this report from PJMedia):

http://pjmedia.com/blog/fbi-criminal-informant-complicit-in-brian-terrys-death-pjm-exclusive/

Apparently, the Obama "Justice" department was not just arming a drug cartel -- it was arming hit teams that had the specific intention of engaging and killing BP personnel. Also, per the article, both FBI and DOJ were aware of an impending ambush of the BP agents, but did nothing to warn them.

Assuming for the moment that this mounting evidence of collusion and corruption is verified -- if this isn't at least gross negligence tantamount to murder, nothing is!


.

 

[jerkface11]

The comments on the NPR article are sickening.

 

[publius]

On the hot seat yesterday, Holder debated the definition of "lying" with Congressman Sensenbrenner.

Holder said in response to accusations that he or his confidantes lied to Congress. “Nobody has lied.”

“Then why was the letter withdrawn?,” Sensenbrenner retorted, referring to a factually inaccurate letter one of Holder’s deputies, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich, sent to Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley on February 4. In that letter, Weich claimed that guns were never allowed to walk.

Holder and one of his other deputies, Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer have both admitted that statement was false in recent Senate hearings.

“The letter was withdrawn because there was information in there that was inaccurate,” Holder replied to Sensenbrenner’s question.

Still unsatisfied, Sensenbrenner followed up again. “Tell me what the difference is between lying and misleading Congress in this context?,” he asked Holder.

Holder responded that whether a statement is a lie or misleading comment depends on what the person making it is thinking at the time.

“If you want to have this legal conversation, it all has to do with your state of mind, and whether or not you had the requisite intent to come up with something that can be considered perjury or a lie,” Holder said. “The information that was provided in that February 4th letter was gleaned by the people who drafted the letter after they interacted with people who they thought were in the best position to have the information.”

That letter was drafted over a period of three days, and the process was described by one staffer as more arduous than drafting the Magna Carta. During that time, no one seems to have thought to question the agents whose allegations the letter was refuting. Those agents were not in the best position to know whether they were telling the truth, you see.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

From Holder's letter: "Those who serve in the ranks of law enforcement are out Nation's heroes and deserve our Nation's thanks, not the disrespect that is being heaped on them by those who seek political advantage"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankmi...bamas-war-on-the-fast-furious-whistleblowers/
Frank Miniter, "Inside President Obama's War On The Fast & Furious Whistleblowers", Forbes, 7 Dec 2011.

Senator Grassley then pointed out that the first whistleblower to come forward about Fast and Furious (ATF Agent John Dodson) had recently been attacked by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ). According to Senator Grassley, “Someone in the Justice Department leaked a document to the press along with talking points in an attempt to smear [Dodson.]” The letter insinuated that Dodson went rogue and started a gun-walking operation on his own. This was easy to prove false; however, if Republicans hadn’t taken control of the U.S. House of Representatives in the 2010 election (meaning an opposing political party wouldn’t have had the power to do an investigation) then Dodson would have been left dangling in these political winds, as records giving the complete picture would likely not have been available.

Senator Grassley pointed out that the documents DOJ released to smear Dodson were actually supposed to be so sensitive that the DOJ wouldn’t provide them to congressional investigators. But then, to harm a whistleblower, someone from the DOJ provided these specifically selected documents to the press.

The article has a list of whistleblowers (the people who stopped Operation Fast and Furious) who were punished and "team players" who were rewarded.

Meanwhile the officials who went along with the operation and its subsequent cover up have mostly been rewarded. “These transfers/reassignments have never been described as promotions in any of the documents announcing them,” said an ATF statement after journalists noted that those who didn’t become whistleblowers profited from their silence.

It is obvious that in USAG Holder's DOJ, the heroes were not the whistleblowers who stopped Operation Fast and Furious, and the whistleblowers deserve the disrespect that is being heaped on them by the Holder DOJ: those who seek political advantage in gun politics.

 

[Deanimator]

"Fast & Furious" is a criminal conspiracy, just like Watergate.

It's hardly surprising that active members of that conspiracy would LIE UNDER OATH to conceal the magnitude of and details of the conspiracy.

Of course LYING UNDER OATH is a tradition in the BATFE. After all, they've previously been caught making an OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO on how to LIE UNDER OATH about the accuracy of the NFA record keeping system.

 

[Skyshot]

If the USAG escape's this unscathed he will become a more embolden adversary against 2nd A rights. A scarey thought pending the upcomming election results.

 

[Shadow 7D]

BUT WAIT
funny little side mention by state?? department over 'expedited sales' of firearms to Mexico
Now what is being sold is MILITARY ordinance, not CIA WASR-10 or Siaga's or any other brand of US AK or AR

Rather these are US Military arms, M-4, M16, Machine guns, etc.
apparently about 1/4 of these arms are being "diverted"

Personally I like how he accused Issa of being McCarthy...

 

[SwissArmyDad]

Just got done listening to all three chunks of that hearing. Very interesting range of topics. Issa amazes me with his audacity, in speaking to these officials. Never pulls a punch...Whatever the outcome of this whole mess, I'm certainly glad he's there asking the tough questions.

 

[SwissArmyDad]

Personally I like how he accused Issa of being McCarthy...

I caught that too. haha!

I can't imagine having enough patience to being interrupted during a testimony as much as he was during that hearing. I agree with the Rep. from Puerto Rico, Holder's department really screwed the pooch on this one, and it pises me off to think that this might have been done to further BHO's anti-gun agenda, but at least he's an articulate witness that can explain his perspective.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

As the head of the Justice Department, Mr. Holder is ultimately responsible for the programs within the DOJ and the way in which the employees of the department conduct those programs. Both success and failures. The larger the impact of such programs or their conduct the more the leadership of the department has responsibility for assuring the success of the program.

I've worked with government departments and agencies for nearly 30 years. The more important or vulnerable the program, the higher up the organization chart knowledge and responsibility for the program reaches. Considering the importance of Gunrunner and Fast and Furious and the vulnerability they brought to the BATFE and DOJ there is no surprise that many find it impossible to accept that the appointed head of the DOJ was not briefed on the programs. Whether he was briefed on the failure to maintain any control over the firearms moving to Mexico is an open question. Considering the risk and liability associated with loosing control of the weapons it is unthinkable that Mr. Holder and his immediate staff would not have been concerned about that possibility and that they would have put in place a series of In-Process Reviews to track the conduct of the program. This is standard practice in other agencies and departments and it is unlikely that it isn't used in the DOJ. Either failing to do so or failing to conduct them properly or failing to accept responsibility for either is proof of unacceptable overconfidence, irresponsible negligence, or simple coverup.

What liability? the ability to lie?

Neither Holder nor the US government has any civil liability.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

What we have here is the definition of irony:

General Holder, in an attempt to justify the re-imposition of the expired semi-auto ban from the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, engaged in a conspiracy to traffic illegal weapons which predictably resulted in the death of a US Federal Law Enforcement Officer. If he is prosecuted and convicted of his crimes, as he should be, he is subject to execution under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.

Additionally, as we are considered to be involved in a War on Drugs, General Holder has committed treason, too.

 

[publius]

What liability? the ability to lie?

Neither Holder nor the US government has any civil liability.

That's pretty funny, but I think it may refer to the political and moral liability involved in releasing guns to criminals. It was discussed. From a CBS News report on gunwalking last February:

CBS News has been told at least 11 ATF agents and senior managers voiced fierce opposition to the strategy. "It got ugly..." said one. There was "screaming and yelling" says another. A third warned: "this is crazy, somebody is gonna to get killed."

Sure enough, the weapons soon began surfacing at crime scenes in Mexico - dozens of them sources say - including shootouts with government officials.

One agent argued with a superior asking, "are you prepared to go to the funeral of a federal officer killed with one of these guns?" Another said every time there was a shooting near the border, "we would all hold our breath hoping it wasn't one of 'our' guns."

Then, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered.

 

[TexasRifleman]

"Fast & Furious" is a criminal conspiracy, just like Watergate.

You are right, except no one died in Watergate. This one is much worse.

 

[publius]

About those emails that Lanny Breuer says he never read... The ones in which his staff conspired for three days to put together a letter to Congress that was recently withdrawn for being full of lies.

Well, it sure looks like he DID read them.

Breuer consulted in the drafting of a Feb. 4 letter to Grassley falsely denying that ATF had ever walked guns.

Newly obtained emails show Breuer received drafts of the letter four times via email. He even forwarded drafts to his personal Google email account.

• Lie No. 2: When Grassley recently asked Breuer point blank if he reviewed the letter, Breuer suggested he had not looked at it. "At the time," he testified, "I was in Mexico dealing with the very real issues that we are all so committed to."

Of course, he made this statement before investigators had the benefit of his emails. In response to the draft he received while in Mexico, Breuer emailed one of his aides: "As usual, great work."

...

Forget resignation. Breuer ought to be investigated for perjury.

And Congress' next step should be to subpoena Google's servers to obtain Breuer's nongovernment private emails and see if he engaged in any further discussion about the Feb. 4 letter — which is so riddled with "inaccuracies" that Justice has now withdrawn it.

So let's see... Breuer found out about the Wide Receiver program and flew to Phoenix to dress down the agents. When he received word that the same people in the same office were running a similar program, but even more insane than the last one, he let his staff handle it and did not make any connection between the two programs. His staff, in an effort to find out whether whistleblowers were telling the truth about this program, interviewed none of the whistleblowers and then sent a letter to Congress falsely claiming that the whistleblowers were lying. Telling your staff "good job" when you have not even reviewed their work is just good management. He's doing an excellent job of supervising, and should stay in government employment.

That's their version.

Mine is: he participated in the coverup and lied about it to Congress and should be in jail.

 

[xfyrfiter]

Presidents have been impeached for far lesser crimes, aiding and abetting murder, is as punishable as murder itself, and should carry the same penalties. This administration is totally corrupt, from the top down, and if we allow these people to remain in office, we deserve what we get. Just in my opinion.

 

[Ignition Override]

If we want to help, next November don't forget to vote

 

[publius]

You don't have to wait until November to contact your representatives and ask them why Lanny Breuer and his staff are allowed to lie to Congress and get away with it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have been trying to piece this together as it unfolded like a Dadaist "exquisite corpse" mind game.

Under most operations under Project Gunrunner, when gun dealers suspected straw purchase for cartels (hispanic guy with paper bag of $100s wanting 5, 10, 20 AKs at one buy) they would contact the ATF; ATF agents would interdict the straw purchasers and the guns before they hit the streets or crossed the border. US Attorneys didn't want to prosecute straw buyers because the crime just wasn't glamorous enough on their resume to justify wasting precious time from their career paths, but US guns were kept from crossing the border.

Let me see, "gun walking" under Wide Receiver 2006-2007 (a) gun dealers who suspected straw purchase for cartels contacted the ATF; (b) ATF agents told them to do the sales and they would track them; (c) ATF agents did video and audio recording, followed the traffickers to the border, notified the Mexican police who failed to interdict the traffickers, and (d) ATF HQ Field Ops honcho William Hoover sends down the word that gunwalking was a failure, shut it down.

In the meantime, Mexican President Calderon's war with the drug cartels escalated from 62 drug-related murders 2006 to 9,635 in 2009 in large part because the drug trade was destabilised by removing the bosses. Before the US Congress, Calderon blames the murders on the "90%" of guns coming from the US and the Obama administration clamors for a crackdown on US gun dealers and gun shows via new gun laws.

So, "gun walking" under Fast & Furious 2009-2010: (a) gun dealers out suspected straw purchasers for cartels to the ATF; (b) ATF agents tell them to do the sales; (c) ATF supervisors tell field agents don't do surveillance, don't follow the traffickers, don't notify the Mexican police; (d) ATF supervisors "track" the guns by following eTraces as they are recovered after use in crimes in Mexico; and (e) ATF HQ heads blame lax gun laws, gun dealers, the NRA and the other usual suspects.

And criticism of the Obama Administration for Fast and Furious (2009-2010) is invalid because the Bush Administration did the "very same thing" under Wide Receiver (2006-2007). Well, under Bush, Hoover (ATF HQ) and Newell (ATF Phoenix) shut down gunwalking as a failure, but under Obama, Hoover and Newell let it restart and keep on its failed path ?!!?

 

[Steel Talon]

MOre Holder stuff...


Eric Holder Claims Racism Responsible for Fast and Furious Criticism

The Weekly Standard.. The Blog comments..
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/eric-holder-claims-racism-responsible-fast-and-furious-criticism_613596.html

But Mr. Holder contended that many of his other critics — not only elected Republicans but also a broader universe of conservative commentators and bloggers — were instead playing “Washington gotcha” games, portraying them as frequently “conflating things, conveniently leaving some stuff out, construing things to make it seem not quite what it was” to paint him and other department figures in the worst possible light.

Of that group of critics, Mr. Holder said he believed that a few — the “more extreme segment” — were motivated by animus against Mr. Obama and that he served as a stand-in for him. “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him,” he said, “both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.”

The Times Article…Sited
A Partisan Lightning Rod Is Undeterred

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/us/politics/under-partisan-fire-eric-holder-soldiers-on.html

 

[Neverwinter]

MOre Holder stuff...

Eric Holder Claims Racism Responsible for Fast and Furious Criticism

NYTimes article

That subject line isn't supported by the text of the article. The NYTimes article refers to the partisan pressure on his position in the administration overall, not specifically from OF&F.
He notes the existence of the "good faith" opposition in the preceding paragraph which was neglected.
It is unfortunate that he used that now-tainted phrase of "Washington gotcha" games, but he does it to explain the nature of some attacks against him. In the article, he calls out the extreme elements of that partisan offensive which are fueled by racist motivations.

Hardly a claim that OF&F criticism is founded on racism.

 

[lathedog]

I find it interesting that (for the most part) the folks who would be accepting of the AG responses probably don't even know that any of this is happening. They are likely watching the many major network news agancies that have been actively not-reporting this.

I think another batch of folks are about to wake up to the larger reality of a propaganda machine that is aimed at controlling them and convincing them to voluntarily give up their basic human rights. The machine has been steadily losing people thanks to the internet and one specific news agency, although we all have to be careful to cross check anything and everything in the new world of easy access to information. This story is too big for the remaining news agencies to keep hiding, and will be like meatloaf left in the fridge for over a year when it (finally) breaks on their shows.

I think we still need more people to ask more questions about this scandal. I do not believe that we have gotten to the bottom of things yet. The NRA seems convinced that this is about elevating the public perception of a need for more gun control, but I think they are locked into their own pre-loaded paradigm and are stopping at a waypoint, not the final destination. There is something here that does not make sense and I have learned that confusion is often the result of a lack of all the data or the result of a preconception that does not fit the facts. I know it sounds a bit conspiracy-theorish but I really think that this elevator goes up one more level before we get to the penthouse.

I could well be wrong but a gut-check tells me that there is too much involvement by too many agencies and the players had to know this would come out at some point. Most conspiracy theories thrive in a lack of hard facts/evidence but this "project" resulted in too many established hard facts because of the trail of evidence (official letters) supplied to gun stores during the agency purchases. I keep thinking that this is a false trail that we are supposed to see and that we (gun rights folks) are being played. I don't know; maybe I am giving these bad actors too much credit.

 

[Deanimator]

All of Holder's reactions to the collapse of the conspiracy have a pathetic, creepy Pee Wee Hermanesque "I MEANT to do that!" quality to them.

Every denial, every pointing of his finger at someone else, every pulling of the dog eared "race card" by Holder just makes him look MORE guilty.

The only thing left for him to do is go on national TV and announce, "Your Attorney General is not a crook!"

 

[publius]

FBI Director denies involvement in gunwalking coverup

In recent Senate hearings and media interviews, Grassley noted that in January -- the month after Terry was killed -- he handed Holder two letters mentioning "numerous allegations" from whistleblowers "that the ATF sanctioned the sale of hundreds of assault weapons to suspected straw purchasers" and "two of the weapons were then allegedly used in a firefight … killing CBP Agent Brian Terry."

The letters, addressed to then-ATF head Ken Melson, did not cite "Fast and Furious" by name.

In addition, Grassley has cited several memos addressed to Holder in July and August 2010 that do mention the gunrunning investigation by name but no information about the operation's tactics.

Holder has said his office typically receives more than 100 pages of "so-called 'weekly reports' that, while addressed to me, actually are provided to and reviewed by" his staff and the deputy attorney general's staff. He said he does not "and cannot read them cover-to-cover."

Holder did not happen to mention how many of those letters are personally handed to him by a US Senator, nor how many involve the murder of a federal agent enabled by federal government crimes.

I guess it must be routine. Must be an exciting life when a Senator can hand you a letter detailing allegations of crimes in your agency that helped enable an agent's murder and the response is just to put it in the pile with the others for the staff to handle.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Apparently, the Obama "Justice" department was not just arming a drug cartel....

One of the things that will haunt us for years to come is that a lot of Latin Americans believe that Fast and Furious was a deliberate plot to arm the Sinaloa Cartel against the Los Zetas. Yeah, it is a conspiracy theory, but it will color Mexican, Central and South America attitudes toward the US in the future.

Before Mexican President Calderon sent the military against the cartels in his home state in Dec 2006, there were 62 reported drug related murders in Mexico. DOJ/ATF Project Gunrunner tightening up on gun trafficking between the US and Mexico started the same year. By 2009 there were over 15,000 drug war related deaths in Mexico. That's with more pressure on US gun trafficking than pre-2006 and with harsher military style tactics in the Mexican drug war than pre-2006. And Calderon and Obama want to blame US gundealers for this policy-fail mess.

 

[1911Tuner]

In the article, he calls out the extreme elements of that partisan offensive which are fueled by racist motivations.

And does he have any specific information or evidence that supports his cry of racism?

The race card is thrown around too much. Accusing a man of being racist because he won't sell you a car on credit is one thing. Accusing an individual or a group of people of racism with toppling an elected or duly appointed official as the end game is another matter. That's a pretty serious allegation, and one that he might want evidence of before he runs it up the flag pole.

It seems like Holder is digging himself in deeper every time he opens his mouth. Maybe a case of: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." A wise man once noted that...when one finds himself in a hole...the logical course of action is to put the shovel down.