AG Holder fires back

[TexasRifleman]

The attorney general cited race in explaining why a "more extreme segment" of his critics were going after him. "This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him, both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we're both African-American," Holder said

Great quote this morning from someone on Holder doing the race thing.

Rep. Allen West, R-Fla., said it looks like Holder is playing the "last card in the deck."

Last card in the deck.... I certainly hope so. This has gone on long enough with no accountability. It's time.

 

[Ky Larry]

I'm not at all surprised by A.G. Holder playing the race card. In his interview with Barbara Walters last week, Herman Cain blamed the news media and white people for reportimg his alleged sexual indiscretions. IIRC, the Los Angeles Times had a tape 0f Obama speaking before a group of Arad-Americans. On the tape, Obama cursed and denegrated Israel and used many racist term to describe Jews. As this was right before the 2008 election, the tape was never made public.

Let us not forget, the news media will stop at nothing to advance the liberal, left wing's agenda. They will lie, distort,tell half-truths, and ignore news stories as they see fit. Why should we be surprised they have lied, distorted, told half truths, and ignored news stories about Holder, Obama,the A.T.F.and Operation Fast and Furious? They want our guns. It's as simple as that.

 

[publius]

In an article about former Director Melson's July 4th testimony, Richard Serrano at the LA Times is up to his old tricks, spreading the propaganda:

Under the program, devised to help agents follow weapons from gun stores to Mexican cartel leaders, about 2,000 firearms were lost.

And cleverly devised it was! Reviewing Agent Dodson's testimony...



The plan was: follow the straw purchasers no matter which way the guns go, and inform no one in Mexico that the guns are on the way. That way, agents can follow the guns from stores to Mexican cartel leaders!

Wait, that won't work, will it?

Maybe no one in government is smart enough to realize that it won't work. Or the plan was devised for some other purpose.

I'm hoping it's the latter, I guess. I'm not sure whether "stupid as a box of rocks" is better than "lying" or not. Anyone?

 

[publius]

This bit from Serrano's column is particularly troubling to me:

Hours after Terry was killed south of Tucson, David J. Voth, the ATF group supervisor for Fast and Furious in Phoenix, sent an email to lead Agent Hope A. MacAllister. He titled the email, "no more rose colored glasses."

"If you have not heard a Border Patrol agent was shoot and killed here in Arizona," he told her. "The trace came back to Fast and Furious…Ugh...! Call as soon as you can, things will most likely get ugly."

This is the guy in charge of implementing the gunwalking strategy, who clearly knew it was wrong but would not get ugly as long as the only casualties were small, brown people in Mexico. He knew he was in trouble when a white agent of our government was killed. And then he got promoted.

The only taxpayer subsidy this man should be getting is room and board at a federal prison. Why are we still paying him and many of the others responsible for this? And why the complete silence on that issue from fans of "common sense" gun control laws?

 

[jerkface11]

On the Sons Of Anarchy episode it was the CIA arming the cartel. I wouldn't put it past them to use another agency to do the dirty work either...

 

[we are not amused]

LOL! Now fictional motorcycle gangs shows are being used as sources for tin hat theories.

I remember a few months ago, when I was accused by a moderator of wearing a tin foil hat because I stated that I believed that the Fast and Furious program was being used to funnel guns to the drug lords in Mexico, so that the Administration could argue for greater gun control measures. I based that on the fact that the Administration, from Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder on down was pushing for greater gun control, claiming that too many American guns were going to Mexico, while Fast and Furious was going on. Surely some people remember all the News stories with statements by Obama, Clinton and Holder. Then we find out that the BATFE was deliberately facilitating the transference of guns to criminals in Mexico during this same time period.

Lo and behold, e-mails to that effect have now turned up.

In my opinion, the only question is how high up was the knowledge of Fast and Furious known
Obviously, Eric Holder knew of it, or he would be as outraged and wanting to get to the bottom of it as any one else. But how much higher was knowledge of the operation known? We know that National Security officials in the White House were briefed on Fast and Furious, but we don't know exactly what they were told or what they told the President. If I was the President, and learned that something like this was going on, while I was pushing for more gun control, I would have fired every one involved and ordered the NEW Attorney General to seek criminal indictments against the people responsible for the operation.
But then, I would never have been pushing for more gun control in the first place.

But the question still remains, "What did the President Know, and when did he know it".

 

[armoredman]

It's not Watergate, and this time the news media is rabidly protecting the guilty. We may never know, and the guilty may never face judgement.

 

[Deanimator]

It's not Watergate, and this time the news media is rabidly protecting the guilty. We may never know, and the guilty may never face judgement.

1. Nobody died in Watergate.
2. We're not going to LET them sweep this under the carpet. The damage has already been done. The aircraft has entered a divergent, unrecoverable attitude.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

jerkface11: "On the Sons Of Anarchy episode it was the CIA arming the cartel...."
we are not amused: "LOL! Now fictional motorcycle gangs shows are being used as sources for tin hat theories."

We should stick to reliable sources in discussing this issue.

What we should recognize from the fictional use is that it represents how far recognition of Fast and Furious has spread: it is now a part of popular culture. Of course, Sons of Anarchy is not a source on OF&F: the writers of SoA are just repeating a Latin American "conspiracy theory" that the US was deliberately arming the Sinaloa cartel against the Los Zetas cartel.

 

[we are not amused]

It's not Watergate, and this time the news media is rabidly protecting the guilty. We may never know, and the guilty may never face judgement.

True, it's not Watergate, it is far more serious.

Unfortunately you are 100% right about the News Media protecting the guilty.

 

[ErikO]

The news media gets their 'journalism' from the likes of Mike Bloomberg's company.

Mr Holder appearantly is not aware of the history of gun restriction laws or else is hoping that others are not aware.

 

[JFrame]

The news media gets their 'journalism' from the likes of Mike Bloomberg's company.

Mr Holder appearantly is not aware of the history of gun restriction laws or else is hoping that others are not aware.

Sadly, the Leftist "narrative" has never been about either history or truth.

Hence, MSNBC's reporting of the "racist" and "extremist" protests against Obamacare back in 2009, including the famous video of a man with a shouldered semiautomatic rifle and a handgun on his hip...Of course, that miserable excuse for a "news" outlet carefully edited the footage to keep from revealing that the armed man was BLACK...


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[Neverwinter]

Sadly, the Leftist "narrative" has never been about either history or truth.

Hence, MSNBC's reporting of the "racist" and "extremist" protests against Obamacare back in 2009, including the famous video of a man with a shouldered semiautomatic rifle and a handgun on his hip...Of course, that miserable excuse for a "news" outlet carefully edited the footage to keep from revealing that the armed man was BLACK...

Discussion of the instances of racist and extremist opposition to the administration is outside the scope of this thread, except regarding the denial of such.

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[1911Tuner]

Well...regardless, the fact stands that the cries of racism...whether true or not...wouldn't be an issue had Holder done his job and stayed within the law.

If he was aware of it...and I find it hard to believe that he wasn't...he's guilty of criminal conspiracy, and he should be charged.

If he wasn't...he was derelict in his duties, and should be relieved of his post...and possibly held liable in a civil court for the death of the agent. He and others of his ilk have promoted the notion of holding firearms dealers civilly responsible for people who commit murder with guns bought at their stores. What's good for the duck is good for the turkey. No?

This, whether he's black, white, green, gray, or orange.

No. They're not after him because he's black. They're after him because illegal actions were green-lighted on his watch, and people died. That's the bottom line. Period. Would those same people have died anyway, even without the guns that the ATF let walk? Maybe. We'll never know...but that's not the issue.

 

[publius]

Senator Grassley personally handed Eric Holder letters detailing the whistleblowers' allegations.

I know the AG gets a lot of mail and staffers handle a lot of it, but how much is personally delivered by a US Senator? Would that not be some kind of cue to take a peek?

In response to Grassley's letters, Lanny Breuer's staff spent three days concocting a response to Congress in which they said there was no gunwalking. They consulted the people in the best position to know what happened, meaning they spent three days toning down Burke's false denials before sending a false response to Congress. That response has since been withdrawn.

If Holder, Breuer and the rest had any intention of getting to the truth, they could have found it easily enough during those three days before sending a false response to Congress. They did not, and virtually everyone responsible for the program and the coverup remains in government.

 

[JFrame]

Discussion of the instances of racist and extremist opposition to the administration is outside the scope of this thread, except regarding the denial of such.

You obviously totally missed the point that my post IS a denial that there is a "racist and extremist opposition" to the administration, except that which is created in the mind of the AG.


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[bugmania]

The way I see it is that somewhere in the DoJ we were allowing guns to knowingly and unlawfully go to the cartels in Mexico. These are groups that are in a "war" with the Mexican government. In essence we are arming the enemies of of friendly country. If this is the case, then the Holder as the head of the DoJ must have known, Clinton as head of the State Dept. should have been informed, and Obama should have been informed as well. You don't hear alot from Clinton, my guess is that she was probably not in the loop and Obama seems to be in the dark about almost everything except golf. At any rate everyone involved in this idiotic scheme from Holder on down to the moron who dreamed it up should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I say kudos to Grassley, Issa and the ones responsible for brining this to light and keep putting on the heat. Justice needs to be served!

 

[Deanimator]

You don't hear alot from Clinton, my guess is that she was probably not in the loop and Obama seems to be in the dark about almost everything except golf.

I can easily believe that Clinton wasn't told. I highly doubt that she's either liked or trusted by the administration.

I don't believe for one SECOND that Obama didn't know. You can NEVER get away from his comment to the gun control fanatics about "working under the radar".

He knew.

 

[Neverwinter]

Well...regardless, the fact stands that the cries of racism...whether true or not...wouldn't be an issue had Holder done his job and stayed within the law.

No, it was an issue before the OF&F story broke. That was the point of the cited NYTimes Holder article, that it has been going on for years . The claim that Holder discounted OF&F criticism as solely being caused by racists is a strawman, since that is completely divorced from the reality as demonstrated by the article.

Do we actually have Holder on record as being in support of civil liability for gun owners due to theft?

You obviously totally missed the point that my post IS a denial that there is a "racist and extremist opposition" to the administration, except that which is created in the mind of the AG.

It was merely a commentary on the nature of the current reporting system. A post on the opposing side responding to a denial with citations would get Reported into oblivion.

The point that OF&F was being silenced by the media is rather odd, given that CBS was one of the first to report it.

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[JFrame]

The point that OF&F was being silenced by the media is rather odd, given that CBS was one of the first to report it.

Well, actually "the media" is comprised of more than one T.V. network; and even for that network, it is really just one reporter (Sharyl Attkisson) who has been doing the heavy lifting in terms of investigative reporting (for which she famously got "chastised" by the Obama administration).

The L.A. Times has had some front-page coverage of OF&F also. But these infrequent spurts of coverage do not mitigate either the perception or the reality that the "news" services, by and large, are ignoring a story that, had the sitting administration been Republican, would have been trumpeted day-in and day-out as the Federal Crime of the Century.


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[1911Tuner]

No, it was an issue before the OF&F story broke. That was the point of the cited NYTimes Holder article.

And it still wouldn't have his feet in the fire if he had done his job and stayed within the laws that he took an oath to uphold. You can hate a man for his race all you want. As long as he conducts himself in proper fashion...follows the rules...and lives a decent life, there's no recourse other than to leave him alone, and I'd be among his loudest proponents.

But he didn't...and he did...and he needs to be held accountable...and if he was pure Aryan, I'd say the same thing.

 

[jerkface11]

Since his boss isn't firing him for it we can only assume he condones Holder's actions. So Obama should be held responsible for the whole thing.

 

[Neverwinter]

The L.A. Times has had some front-page coverage of OF&F also. But these infrequent spurts of coverage do not mitigate either the perception or the reality that the "news" services, by and large, are ignoring a story that, had the sitting administration been Republican, would have been trumpeted day-in and day-out as the Federal Crime of the Century.

There were many issues with the last administration which deserved the kind of coverage which OF&F received, but did not get.

There has been continuing coverage by the news services of OF&F, even if they cannot constantly cover it due to their journalistic duties to cover other current events. Their charter goes beyond partisan narratives which Republican Tea Party media outlets pursue at the expense of the knowledge of their viewers.

And it still wouldn't have his feet in the fire if he had done his job and stayed within the laws that he took an oath to uphold. You can hate a man for his race all you want. As long as he conducts himself in proper fashion...follows the rules...and lives a decent life, there's no recourse other than to leave him alone, and I'd be among his loudest proponents.

But he didn't...and he did...and he needs to be held accountable...and if he was pure Aryan, I'd say the same thing.

This is a laudable opinion but not one which is endemic of the opposition to the administration. There are citable cases of racially charged attacks which are not based on any sort of misconduct. The fact that we do not shun those people involved in dog whistle politics only serves to weaken our position against OF&F.

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[publius]

Neverwinter, post 103 above contains a typical example of that "continuing coverage" you are talking about, and it is an endless stream of spin that this scandal is about a "botched sting" in which some agents lost track of some guns.

That is not what happened, and the current real scandal is about who tried to mislead Congress when they began investigating. Judging by this recent release from Senator Grassley, he is not going to let that question go away. Good for him.

 

[1911Tuner]

pubulius...Yes.

The accusations of racism remind me of a lazy student claiming that he's failing because the teacher doesn't like him.

If Clinton hadn't been playing that little comedy with Monica in the Oval Office, there would have been no scandal.

If Nixon hadn't authorized illegal wiretaps, there would have been no scandal.

If Holder had adhered to the same laws that he swore to uphold...or if he had been competent...watchful on his watch...there would be no investigation, and there would be no scandal.

When the son of a friend kept getting fired from jobs for misconduct, excessive absence, and sloth...I told him that the best way to go about it is to show up...do his work...own his mistakes...and follow the rules.

All political figures have enemies. The wise path is to not give them anything to lock onto.