Airsoft for training

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Airsoft will damage sheet rock and glass, depending on how close you are. Just ask my wife. :)

On the plus side, a piece of the blue foam insulation, and a towel make a great back stop and drop the pellets into a pan at the back.

They dont use CO2, but a (propane based, I think) green or red gas. They really arent loud, but depending on your apartments construction, they may be heard. Its not a bang or anything, but there is noise. Dont forget the noise your acrobatics make too, thats probably louder. :)
 
I have been considering getting one of the co2 blowback ones to practice with, my main concern though is the noise. Will i be able to shoot it in my apartment without the neighbors hearing it and complaining? Also, will the BB's damage walls or break glass?

Noise: You really don't need to worry about noise. While the airsoft weapons do make noise, it's not really loud enough to be heard through a wall.

Now, the plastic pellets that these things fire WILL dent a piece of sheetrock, and will break very thin glass. Windows and heavy drinking glasses are fine. Picture frames and crystal wine glasses are not.

Now, these rounds don't carry that much energy. They are very easy to stop. A sheet, hung 3" off the wall, is a great backstop. Or you can buy commercially available traps for the rounds.

What weapons do you currently own? Have holsters for?

Or are you just looking for something fun?
 
I was looking at the KJW USP compact, or a glock 26. something compact

Something compact, eh?

I would steer you away from KJW for your first weapon. It's a cheaper quality build, takes way more maintnence to keep functioning.

Some ideas (click the pic for more info)

Western Arms Beretta M84F - Silver - $150
WA-BERETTA-M84FS-SLIVER-L.jpg

Maruzen P99 Compact - $126
MRZ-GBB-P99C-L.jpg

Tokyo Marui G26 - $106
TM-GBB-G26-L.jpg

KSC G26 - $168 with metal slide and upgrades
KSC%20Glock26-L.jpg

This is representative of brands that I like, and available weapons. I will personally vouch for anything made by KSC and Western Arms. I own 3 WA pistols, and a KSC subgun and pistol. My glock 19 is KSC, and with the metal slide, is almost indistinguishable from the real steel.
 
You guys are loosing it . . . some of the airsoft guns on those websites are over a grand. Many of them are more than a Brand new CZ-75b. F:barf:' that.
 
I guess it depends on what your looking to accomplish and want to spend. I spent about $250 on two SIG P229 gas guns, and accessories. Both are KJW guns and have been used a lot. The only problem I've had was with one mag, which just needed to be taken apart and reassembled to correct.

Even at the cost of one new real P229, the lessons learned far outweigh the cost.
 
What is the highest quality airsoft 1911 on the market today? I'd like to get one for holster work/force-on-force practice.

Is there a general consensus on the best/highest quality airsoft maker out there?
 
THANKS!!

i play around with airsoft, and had been trying to figure out what to upgrade to for a decent practice gun, the ones i have are pretty cheap and not very accurate.
you guys gave me some good reviews there
 
oh yeah, don'T

test the gun by firing it into your hand.

one of my idiot friends did it faster than i could tell him not to, hate to think what that clown would have done with a real one, but he yelled pretty loud when it hit his palm.

also
I do recommend trying black bbs so that you can't see the pellets or walk them to the target.

what does that mean??? the bright pellets are making it easier to aim??
 
What is the highest quality airsoft 1911 on the market today? I'd like to get one for holster work/force-on-force practice.

Is there a general consensus on the best/highest quality airsoft maker out there?

That is an excellent question. One that has several answers.

For stock commercial guns, I don't think you can do better than Western Arms. They have, IMHO, the best fit and finish, are the most accurate, and the longest life (if taken care of).

Now, there are custom guns out there (the wilsons of the airsoft world, if you will) that are better than anything you can get out of the box. But, expect to pay upwards of $500 for one of those masterpieces.

Now, for a 1911:

Western Arms S.C.W. Gold Match HW (Silver) - $230
WA299-L.jpg

Western Arms S.C.W. Wilson Super Grade 5 inch Deluxe HW (Black) - $190.50
WA301-L.jpg

WA Para-Ordnance P14-45 Limited (S.C.W. Ver2 ) - $212.00
wa-parap1545-ltd-l.jpg

WA Commander Light Weight ( 2003 Version ) - $190
WA-CMD-LW-L.jpg

From our friends at Tokyo Mauri,
Tokyo Marui HI-CAPA 4.3 - $117
TM-GBB-HICAP43-L.jpg

Now, if you've got some cash to drop....

From AirsoftSurgeon:

Airsoft Surgeon STI Executive 5inch DC - $799
AS-STI5-L.jpg

Airsoft Surgeon Infinity 5 inch Standard Race Gun - $828
AS-INFSV-L.jpg
 
Thanks for steering away from the KJ Works. I saw some today at a gunshow and almost got one, except they didn't have any in a G19, only 23's. Wanted $140 for em. Felt really good to hold. The guy was talking about using the heavier 20 and 25 gram bb's instead of the lighter 12gram ones, something about the lighter ones swerving off target in the slightest breeze. Then he showed some 35(?)gram ones, almost like regular bb's in weight, really heavy. I started thinking neighborhood cats :evil: I am going to check on that redwolf site. It is really sounding like KWA is going to be the brand to get.
 
In reading the websites, amd I correct is reading that that gases used are basically just 134a and R22 freon gas?
Quote from RedWolf:
Gas types include HFC134a and HFC22

That's basically car freon.
 
BlisteringSilence,
I was perusing REdWolf's site. Very nice and informative, tons of options. Love the Claymore that can be had. I gotta get one of those for unwanted door guests :evil: I was looking at the gas guns and they don't list ANY for KWA .. at all. None. What other brand should I consider, there are just so many listed I don't want to spend money on something that I will regret later. What is wrong is the KJ Works models? Or are they just a slightly lesser quality than the KWA?
 
Wow, some great looking 1911 clones there. Its hard to justify spending 800 bucks on an airsoft, but I've held a couple and its impossible to tell the difference from the fit/finish/weight.

I've got a friend in Japan, who only trains with airsoft before shooting comps here in the uS, and he is fantastic at IPSC/IDPA. You can really work on your trigger control, etc. for CHEAP (if we're talking ammo).

Thanks for the links and pics.

Nick
 
I might be heading for Japan in a couple months for business. Are the prices there better? I've heard quite a bit of the airsoft guns are built over there. If so, where could I look for some of the better 1911 models?
 
I might be heading for Japan in a couple months for business. Are the prices there better? I've heard quite a bit of the airsoft guns are built over there. If so, where could I look for some of the better 1911 models?

Would love to see the look on TSA when you try to declare those to customs :eek:
 
Yeah, more airsoft convertees!

To give a little background, I started playing airsoft in college. We exploited a loophole in the student handbook (one they didn't close until 2 years after I graduated) that allowed these weapons on campus in dorm rooms. As I was poor, it was a good way for me to keep up my training on the cheap, was *relatively* quiet, and wouldn't break anything important. To be fair, anyone who had any single item (excepting tv, computer, and stereo) in their room in my dorm was a moron, so fragile knicknacks were not a problem. There were some pretty epic battles in my hallway my sophomore and junior years (the fact that I was an RA, and my co was an airsofter as well helped more than a little).

So, I started playing around. Then I got serious. All told, I've probably owned 20 different GBB (gas blow back) pistols, 4 GBB subguns, 4 AEG's, and the assorted kit that goes with it. I travel a great deal for work, and my travels have now taken me to Hong Kong 3 times. I never miss up an opportunity to go to the Red Wolf shop, as they're one of the few overseas airsoft dealers that speak english well.

So, let's answer the questions:

Thanks for steering away from the KJ Works. I saw some today at a gunshow and almost got one, except they didn't have any in a G19, only 23's. Wanted $140 for em. Felt really good to hold. The guy was talking about using the heavier 20 and 25 gram bb's instead of the lighter 12gram ones, something about the lighter ones swerving off target in the slightest breeze. Then he showed some 35(?)gram ones, almost like regular bb's in weight, really heavy. I started thinking neighborhood cats I am going to check on that redwolf site. It is really sounding like KWA is going to be the brand to get.

Why don't I like KJW? Well, I've had some lemons from them. When you're buying airsoft, price IS a great indicator of quality. KJW is cheap copies of other company's designs, and they are just poor. Cheap o-rings, antiquated designs, poor quality plastic and metal, poor functioning mags... the list goes on and on.

Airsoft BB's are an interesting item. The available weights (.12, .20, .22, .25, .28, .30, .35, .43, and .45) are all designed for different weapons. .12 BB's should never be fired out of a gas weapon. They're just too light. They're designed for less powerful spring operated weapons. GBB weapons like .20, .22, and .25. These weights are the best tradeoff between velocity and accuracy, and are what the guns are *generally* designed to fire. Automatic Electric Guns (AEG's) can fire BB's ranging in weight from .20 up to .30, if the weapon used has sufficient power upgrades to handle the heavier weights. The heaviest BB's are designed for specialty weapons, mainly sniper rifles. Since most skirmishes have very stringent range requirements for these players when using their primary weapon, the heavier BB's are required to maintain accuracy at ranges of 100+ yards. Unlike the rest of the BB's, these are mainly plastic coated metal, whereas anything .3 or less is all-plastic.

Note on BB's. The weight is important, yes, but so it the BB itself. These are molded plastic, and you need to be sure you get ones that are polished so they don't have any edges. I like Excel (biodegradable and non), Systema, and Tsunami brands.

Redwolf is the only online site I will order guns from. Period. I've worked with some stateside dealers, and it's insane that I'll get better customer service from a company in Hong Kong than I will from one in Atlanta.

KWA and KSC are the same company, just different brands, and I like their weapons. I would grade them as a first class dealer. Also, they are one of the most stringent about keeping markings, trademarks, and function as similar to "real steel" pistols as possible.

In reading the websites, amd I correct is reading that that gases used are basically just 134a and R22 freon gas?

134a is indeed refrigerant. It also has a silicon based oil added to it as a lubricant.

HFC22 is something else entirely. There is a great debate on the internet as to what it is. I do not believe the issue is settled. I do know that it's not R22. This much can be said. HFC22, or Green Gas, can be replaced with propane. A company in Canada sells an adaptor you can screw onto a normal propane can like you'd get at walmart, or gander mountain, or wherever you get your outdoors gear.

I don't do it. I get only KSC brand Green Gas. But, that's just me. Make up your own mind.

I was perusing REdWolf's site. Very nice and informative, tons of options. Love the Claymore that can be had. I gotta get one of those for unwanted door guests I was looking at the gas guns and they don't list ANY for KWA .. at all. None. What other brand should I consider, there are just so many listed I don't want to spend money on something that I will regret later. What is wrong is the KJ Works models? Or are they just a slightly lesser quality than the KWA?

Brands I like:

For GBB - KSC/KWA (same thing), Western Arms, Tokyo Mauri (though these are a little more fragile), Sheriff, Maruzen, and Marushin. The last two used to be cheap crap, but their new stuff is really pretty good.

And that spring fired claymore is pretty neat. I really want one now. It's way better than the old gas-fired ones.

I might be heading for Japan in a couple months for business. Are the prices there better? I've heard quite a bit of the airsoft guns are built over there. If so, where could I look for some of the better 1911 models?

Yes, the prices are MUCH better than what you pay in the states. Coming back through customs is the tricky part. I had a guy on one of my trips "question" me for an hour before I was able to convince him (and his supervisor, and his supervior's supervisor) that airsoft weapons were, in fact, legal, and that I had the proper paperwork in my suitcase next to my boxes of brand new toys. It was worth it though. This was back in the day that quality airsoft brands and models were HARD to come by. Those customs guys are just so humorless. Then again, it was a TMP and a suppressor, and a new WA Infinity that I'd been eyeing for a while.

Incidentally, this is about the same time I figured out that DHL is way, way better than UPS and Fedex. Hong Kong to the US, through customs, and in my hands in 5 days. That's awesome.

The one thing that sucks about airsoft in Japan is that their country is so xenophobic about importing things that are also made in country (to protect their industry) that you can't find anything that's not a Japanese brand. The selection of TM (Tokyo Mauri) weapons is awesome, but you can forget about Taiwanese and Korean weapons.

What to look for? Find an airsoft shop that has LOTS of Western Arms models. Western Arms, in my opinion, are the best there are. Fit, finish, trademarks, materials are all top notch. You pay a premium, but it's worth it. Most guys (myself included) don't like to skirmish with them, as they're just too pretty to scratch up running through the woods.

According to my brother, the best one in Japan is First Shop. It's in Osaka, and he said it's amazing. I haven't been there, can't vouch for it. He speaks Japanese, though, so you should take his advice with a grain of salt.

OK. Anyone else?
 
since it probably got glossed over, i'll ask again why one guy said get black bbs
so you don't walk them to the target-

am i correct in thinking the black, being harder to see, make aiming more realistic rather than being able to "trace" the bbs??
 
since it probably got glossed over, i'll ask again why one guy said get black bbs
so you don't walk them to the target-

am i correct in thinking the black, being harder to see, make aiming more realistic rather than being able to "trace" the bbs??

Yes..... but this really only applies if you're shooting a full auto airsoft gun.

If you want, you can get a suppressor that has a UV light inside of it, and get glow in the dark bb's... looks kinda like a tracer, especially at night.

I used to have one mounted to my M4, and it was pretty sweet. Mix about 100 glow in with 300 standard, and you have a pretty sweet nighttime effect.
 
Just think,those guns won't freely be available anymore in those colours,in the shops or over the internet,over here,because of the Violent Crime Bill 2006,comes into force on October 1st 2007.Still I could write to the PM asking for a licensing system to be put in place allowing these guns to be sold in their original colours.
What a total farce the whole thing is and anyway,those 1911 models are excellent for firearm training.Field-strippable too.
 
Can someone steer me to a good reliable Glock 34 airsoft brand, retailer etc. I came up with KWA at Airsoft Atlanta. Is this a decent product? I want to use it for basement IDPA/IPSC training.

Thanks.
 
Just think,those guns won't freely be available anymore in those colours,in the shops or over the internet,over here,because of the Violent Crime Bill 2006,comes into force on October 1st 2007.Still I could write to the PM asking for a licensing system to be put in place allowing these guns to be sold in their original colours.
What a total farce the whole thing is and anyway,those 1911 models are excellent for firearm training.Field-strippable too.

I know. And I sympathize. Your government is a leading example of how to legislate the banning of things, when the problem is with the people.

I feel truely sorry for my friends in England. Get 'em while you can, I guess.
 
Can someone steer me to a good reliable Glock 34 airsoft brand, retailer etc. I came up with KWA at Airsoft Atlanta. Is this a decent product? I want to use it for basement IDPA/IPSC training.

Thanks.

The KWA is a good gun. However, it is all plastic, and it lacks trademarks.To upgrade it to a metal slide, and all the internals that also need upgraded, you can go with the UN Company. They're out of Hong Kong, and are good people. My only knock against them is that their English isn't as good as Red Wolf.

Anyway:

KSC Glock 34 Metal Version - $135
ksc-g34-msv_big.jpg
 
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