ak47 or Springfield M1A for SHTF

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In most SHFT situations just having an assault rifle on you will keep you relatively safe, but if i had to pick id say the M14 SOCOM , because the AK i had jammed a lot and was terribly inaccurate, (given it was a $400 job) . the standard M14 is a tad to long for practical urban use but a SOCOM would be great. accurate, reliable, wieldable with plenty of knock down power
 
I assume you're in American when the SHTF. So, IMHO......get an AR platform in 5.56x45...Why?

Where can you get ammo?

Where can you get magazines & other parts?

"Murphy Rules" in a SHTF situation. Stockpiles may be lost.

Aloha, Mark
 
A lot depends on , the environment . Urban , rural , plains , woods ?

Short range ( house to house ) to 150 yards , the AK is short and handy and reasonably light .

Medium to long range , the M1A is accurate , powerful , but heavy .

You did not mention the M1 Garand ? FN FAL ?

Also , what do you think your ammo source will be . This will make some difference .

God bless
wyr
 
I plan on stocking up on the ammo when I pick the gun I'll be going with. Everyone keeps saying the M1A will be much heavier, according a review of the SOCOM 16 it weighs 8.9lbs, according to Arsenal's site a milled SAM7 weighs 3.68kg which converts to 8.113lbs - not that much heavier than a milled ak. The stamped 107CR weighs 6.94lbs. All figures were without mags, so yes I know the M1A rounds will be heavier than the AK's but there will be less rounds depending on mag, would be interested to see what the weights would be. Yes I know some mags will be heavier than others due to type of material they are made with.
 
I will probably go with an UF or SF AK for a good compact rifle and still pondering between which M1A version, the SOCOM or Scout.
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Since you will end up with the AK of your choice (UF or SF) I recommend the 18.0" M14 type rifle (Bush/Scout/MK14).
 
Apples and Oranges. If money is not an object go with the 308, actually I'm a FAL fan.

However, if you are on a budget like the rest of us, get the AK. For the cost of the M1A you could get a fair AK, a decent handgun, and ammo.

If yo have never had your hands of these weapons, I suggest you do so before you buy. Also what is your definition of a SHTF situation? What is the terrain like in your AO?

If you are operating in a urban or suburban the AK will shine. The 308 can be used at short ranges, but it shines at the longer open ranges.

Also in you have ever had to carry a rifle ALL the time, a couple of pounds do make a difference.
 
Well I'm a M1A fan myself, I have the standard model and love it:cool:, yes its a little heavy(7.8lbs with out a mag)anyway, M1A's are best for non-urban medium range combat(100-500 yards) so if you live in the country side get the M1A and put a 4x IOR scope on it and get some backup night sights :D

if you live in the city get a AR-10 or AR-15 with a 18 or 16 inch barrel.

if you get the M1A get the fiberglass stock! its so much lighter with it!

if you cant tell I'm not an AK fan :D
 
I think the reliability of the AK is overstated. There is no doubt that if not given any care, the AK will be the most reliable rifle. But most of us do basic cleaning and maintenance of our weapons, and in that case, I doubt there would be any noticeable difference in reliability. If I wanted a rifle that I never cleaned, and could bury for 6 months, dig up and fire, I'd pick the AK. But thanks not going to be the case.

Assuming a modicum of maintenance, the M1A will be just as reliable, more accurate, hit with more power and have much greater range. Since ammo will probably be limited and fully automatic fire is probably not an option or concern, the 7.62x39mm round has no advantage compared 7.62x51. In fact, the reverse is true.

As already noted, it will depend on your SHTF scenario - whether it is some natural disaster, or a collapse of civilization. In the case of the former, and as noted, a concealable handgun will probably be more useful. In the latter case, range is going to be your friend. And having the ability to kill any game in NA will be a plus.

I like the scout version of the M1A. Not so heavy and unwieldy as the standard M1A, but with a standard muzzle interface unlike the SOCOM, so you can use a different flash hider/muzzle break, or even add a can.
 
Personally, i'd go with a lever action chambered in .357 or .44 to go along with the matching pistol. One caliber to deal with. Plenty of punch out to 100 yards. Light, easy to use. And most importantly not as threating looking as an ak/ar/m1a. If this is a katrina style event then hunking around a gun that looks military, will draw the attention of both law enforcement and others. Better to go low key then show off the bling.
 
Pros to the M1A:

Reliable: Its battle proven. Likely, nothing you experience will top that.
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Nitpick: The M-14 is battle proven. The civilian-legal M1A has not, to the best of my knowledge, ever been a military issue weapon and has seen very little in the way of combat use. Of course, the same can be said about any semi-auto AK clone he might purchase.
 
Both are plenty durable but if I were you I would go with the M1A. Get the full length barrel. The military has never fielded a short barreled M-14 type rifle (as far as I know) and in my opinion they are just a sales gimmick.

While the Kalashnikov is very good at what it is supposed to be but is not much of a rifle. The M1A utilizes a real rifle cartridge, has better sights, and is effective out to 800 yards or so. The Kalashnikov is usually chambered for 7.62 X 39 which is ballistically unimpressive, has a short sight radius, and have generally bad triggers. In my view the AK is barely a rifle and is not worth much past 100 yards or so.

The M1A is the descendant of the Garand which is a real joy to shoot. Ever see an AK on the firing line at a highpower match? Learn to shoot a rifle get the M1A!
 
oh my, 1kperday. zombies are at the heart of all SHTF senerios
see zombies are the perfect enemy.
Unlike people. they have no supply lines to cut. so you cant beat them by depriveing them of ammo like an armed enemy
they have no emotion or thought. you cant win thier hearts and minds, because thier heart stoped beating, and the only thing in thier mind is eating your delicious delicious brains.
you cant scare them off with superior number, or over whelming fire power
and more

but the key point. if any other enemy ( Jihadi's, red dawn russians, aliens etc)kills one of yours then you just loose a man. how ever if a zombie kills one of yours, you loose a man, and they gain a man.


Guntech said:
I think the reliability of the AK is overstated. There is no doubt that if not given any care, the AK will be the most reliable rifle. But most of us do basic cleaning and maintenance of our weapons, and in that case, I doubt there would be any noticeable difference in reliability. If I wanted a rifle that I never cleaned, and could bury for 6 months, dig up and fire, I'd pick the AK. But thanks not going to be the case.
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the AK's reliability comes into play when your in the thickest of the suck. think Stalingrad. your going to be out there and your barely able to get food or ammo. beans and bullets are a better investment than a bottle of hoppes. to me. how relevant to a SHTF situation this is, i donno. a katrina style bug out, not that relevant. a red dawn/ zombie apoc. i think so.
 
The M1A is the descendant of the Garand which is a real joy to shoot. Ever see an AK on the firing line at a highpower match? Learn to shoot a rifle get the M1A!
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Can't say I have ever seen an AK used in a highpower match. I never seen an M1911a1 used in a highpower rifle match either. The ak is not designed for highpowered rifle matches though is it?
 
the AK's reliability comes into play when your in the thickest of the suck. think Stalingrad. your going to be out there and your barely able to get food or ammo. beans and bullets are a better investment than a bottle of hoppes. to me. how relevant to a SHTF situation this is, i donno. a katrina style bug out, not that relevant. a red dawn/ zombie apoc. i think so.
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I think in such a situation I might pick a suitable bolt gun. The AK primary advantage is firepower. I can ring a 20" gong at 1000 yards with my best turnbolt. That put's lot's of space between me and the zombies.

If you are really worried about reliability, it's hard to beat a military bolt gun. Controlled round feed, fixed ejector and extractor. Simple trigger. Not much to go wrong.
 
That put's lot's of space between me and the zombies.
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well you gotta hope you have that space. you dont always get to choose where when and how you fight. while bolt guns and big bores have range, many would be ill fitted to engaging multiple targets ( such as zombie hordes, or looters/raiders) at close range.

the M1a does have a good mix of range and firepower. the AK leans more towards the firepower, where as a subgun or carbine is specificly firepower.

i like my milsurps. and my mosin is better than a pointy stick, mainly because its a pointy stick that also shoots lead, from a secure position id love it. but if im walking the streets id take an SKS, AK, AR, M1a, M1, M1 carbine, SVD, SVT,G43. anything semi auto, holding more than 5 shots and reloadable via magazine or strippers.

if i have to choose between a weapon that only holds the benefit of range, or a weapon that has the benefit of fire power. il take fire power. if im walking with an AK,AR etc, and see something 1000 yards out... il go around it. if im walking with a bolt gun and see multiple threats 50 yards out. going around it, or retreat may not be an option.

while a bolt gun may be more reliable than a semi auto. which it should be. i dont feel that trade off of suitability for reliability is worth it. just like you may not feel the trade off of an AK's range is worth the reliability. YMMV
 
I think the biggest part of the decision should be based on where you live. Myself, I live in Western Washington. The vegetation here is very thick and very pervasive. When I go shooting in the woods it can sometimes be very hard to even find a place to shoot over 100 yards. Shots over 200 yards would only occur looking over clearcuts or on roadways. For me, the AK is the perfect rifle. It's accurate enough to make headshots at any distance I'm ever likely to shoot at, it's reliability is second to none and it's firepower is second only to machineguns and heavy weapons.

Now if I lived out in the plains states or the desert I'd probably want the range and the accuracy of the M1A.

One other thing to bear in mind however is that as a civilian you'd be unlikely to be doing any long range shooting unless we were in a state of civil war. Even in SHTF situations, order usually gets restored after a period of weeks and if you've been shooting people at long range you're likely to be facing murder charges afterwards.
 
mutant zombie squirrels

Where'd you get that? Just curious. I'm studying internet pop culture as a hobby.
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They dwell in the deepest, darkest recesses of my mind. Seriously, can you think of anything worse that an army of little mutated living dead tree-rats who only want to feast on your brains?

I have Jack Russell Terriers. The imaginary leap wasn't all that difficult to make. :what:




We have some tactical chainsaws, JWarren, PM me if interested!
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ohhh... Kenpo. I likey. But I don't see a tactical sling. It needs more pictinnay rail attachments. :D

Oddly, I saw something slightly concerning on AR15.com a while back. I think it was on the M4 thread. This guy drew up a concept picture that had an "Electronic Bayonet." I kid you not.

From what I gathered, it had an rail attachment on the bottom rail that held an electric motor. Along the lower rail, it had a track with a wide chainsaw arm. On this arm, the motor ran a chainsaw blade.

All in all, it attached a lot like a M203 and had roughly the same dimension.


All I could think about is hearing something go bump in the night, grab the M4-gery and go take a look. Then forget about the fact that the blades are on the forearm. Seems like an EXCELLENT recipe for losing 4 fingers on a hand! :what:

I think what scared me the most is that it is entirely possible to mount something like that with strong enough of a motor to take off fingers.


-- John
 
JWARREN understands. Read this, people- this is truth.

"And Finally....


The single most important preparation of SHTF is community."
 
Sillverlnce

Ya forgot the P3AT as primary with a P32 in your jockys as backup :) LOL

BTW Ya TRAITOR!! Para FAL ya forgot to plug the FAL!! best combination of the M1As benifits and the AKs benifits in a single rifle! man can't believe ya let that oppertunity get by ya........ ohhh well LMAO :) :) ;)
 
Definately the Ak47 cause it's just a disposable stamped piece of you know what.
 
I'll be honest, I'm fairly certain I couldn't identify a threat at 800yds+ with these old Mk I Eyeballs. Heck, 300yds is likely pushing it. After all, a group of people isn't automatically a mob come to steal the last remaining beers on earth(which happen to be in your cooler), and a person or persons with weapons may just be trying to protect themselves, just like you.
Even in the wide open flatland, I don't think you want/need to be taking so called 'self defense' shots at ranges of hundreds of yards.
Doesn't rule out the M1 by any means, just saying, be realistic.



At any rate, I'd not go for the M1/M1a unless I had one already. I'd get an AK. And an SKS. And 2 crates of ammo, mags, clips, and spare parts for both weapons. Then Ye Olde beans and rice to keep my belly full, first aid kit, fire makin supplies, water+ water purifying supplies. A good metal pot. Yep, that's what I'd do.
Considering the prices I've seen on M1a's, I might even still have money left over in comparison. If so, I think I'd get some booze and smokes. I've got no use for either, but I'm willing to bet they'd make great trade goods. :D
 
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