Don't support the secondary market and it will go away.
Ammo Hoarders...Some Don't Play Fair or well with Others
- Thread starter kemper
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Last independence day at about 6:30am I went to Walmart to get ready made salads, some Old Croc cheese plus organic milk and made mistake of looking next to fishing department trying to find my fav Winchester #1 BK loads. All they had is some rifle hunting ammo and five or six 333 boxes of .22lr at about $24 per carton. I don't even own stupid .22.
Not exactly. It's like complaining about the guy who hears there is a traffic jam, then gets out and drives around to be in the way, then offers to pull over and let you past him in exchange for a fee.
johnandersonoutdoors
Member
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Seems to me that those complaining have a very straight forward plan they can implement to resolve their troubles.
Get up early and go to your local store when the ammo is put out on the shelf. Otherwise don't complain that the shelves are empty when you show up later in the day.
The complainers are the worst among the bunch. You know darn well that there are millions of gun owners demanding billions of rounds, which is exceeding the supply. Don't be surprised when it isn't there.
Get up early and go to your local store when the ammo is put out on the shelf. Otherwise don't complain that the shelves are empty when you show up later in the day.
The complainers are the worst among the bunch. You know darn well that there are millions of gun owners demanding billions of rounds, which is exceeding the supply. Don't be surprised when it isn't there.
Schwing
Member
I am having a hard time understanding the anger here. If Walmart puts the ammo out at 6:00am why can't YOU be in line? If you don't feel like getting up at 6:00am, it doesn't make sense to blame the guy who does. If they have a one limit per customer policy and you are angry that they are bringing their wife or friends to get more... what is stopping you from doing the same thing?
I see the same faces at my local Cal Ranch every Thursday afternoon when I show up to get primers... I have been able to keep up my 15k reserve by showing up when they come in. Why would you show up any other time? I walk in, buy my 300 that they limit me to and walk out. The rest of the week I hear other shooters complaining that they can't find primers. I have told them that they can get them easily from cal ranch early afternoon but they seem more intent on complaining that they can't find any... I spend my time reloading and shooting instead. It is much more satisfying than complaining.
I don't like and will never buy from gouging resellers but they have every right to buy it as the next guy.
After the last freak-out back in 2008 tapered off, I went to Walmart and big 5 and purchased 25 bricks of .22 ammo and continue to buy 1 for each one I shoot. I still have 25 boxes (That I paid normal retail for) because I planned ahead. I know it is easy to blame the guy who is willing to do the footwork and have a plan, but it isn't very logical.
Anyone who has been shooting for more than a couple of years should know by now that these cycles happen almost every 4 years or so. It stinks and you don't have to like it but a little planning and work can help you avoid it.
I see the same faces at my local Cal Ranch every Thursday afternoon when I show up to get primers... I have been able to keep up my 15k reserve by showing up when they come in. Why would you show up any other time? I walk in, buy my 300 that they limit me to and walk out. The rest of the week I hear other shooters complaining that they can't find primers. I have told them that they can get them easily from cal ranch early afternoon but they seem more intent on complaining that they can't find any... I spend my time reloading and shooting instead. It is much more satisfying than complaining.
I don't like and will never buy from gouging resellers but they have every right to buy it as the next guy.
After the last freak-out back in 2008 tapered off, I went to Walmart and big 5 and purchased 25 bricks of .22 ammo and continue to buy 1 for each one I shoot. I still have 25 boxes (That I paid normal retail for) because I planned ahead. I know it is easy to blame the guy who is willing to do the footwork and have a plan, but it isn't very logical.
Anyone who has been shooting for more than a couple of years should know by now that these cycles happen almost every 4 years or so. It stinks and you don't have to like it but a little planning and work can help you avoid it.
jcwit
member
Some need to be at work before 6 AM, in fact we have factories that start their shift at 4 AM.
Thank God I'm not one of these people.
jcwit
member
Please elaborate as to just what is stupid about a .22 rimfire.
Queen_of_Thunder
member
It's that very secondary market that is putting ammo into the hands of shooters who can't get it any other way. Its not like there is a Cabelas,Academy or other big box retailer of ammo in every single town in this country. The secondary maket provides for a more equitable distribution of product, in this case ammo.
jcwit
member
Speak for yourself. I would not "clear" the shelf nor have I ever "cleared"the shelf.
I have way more then I think I'll ever use up. Purchased way back in the days od Geo. Bush both #1 & #2. All purchased on sale for less than $10 bucks a brick. Now I also have target ammo that cost me $70 to $120 a brick even years way back when.
jcwit
member
Sounds as if you may be a member of the secondary market.
bergmen
Member.
Well in California there are complications. There are bills in the works in the state legislature that would do a number of things as far as ammo is concerned, including:
1) Banning ALL lead in ALL ammo.
2) Banning ALL internet sales of ammo to California.
3) Requiring the purchase of ALL in-state ammo be done through current FFL's and producing identification (and possibly an ammo purchase license) to buy it.
It is a wonder the shelves anywhere in California have any ammo to buy at all. The only thing around here that seems to never be on the shelves is .22 and .22 WMR, the other calibers are sporadic. Amazingly, 12 gauge lead shot game loads are on the shelves at Wally World at reasonable prices ($6.00 a box of 25).
Dan
I value my time. I have a young child at home, a job, and various hobbies. I am not interested in spending hours every week hunting down .22lr. When I find it, or primers, or other things I need, I try to be considerate of others. I do not buy all I can afford, nor all that I can carry. I try to limit myself to what I will actually consume. If everyone did that, the shortage would never have been so pronounced, nor would it have lasted more than a couple of months.
Instead, we have a classic bubble market. It's a market failure that makes almost everyone's lives worse, except for those arbitragers that are creating the bubble. I cannot make them stop doing what they're doing. I can think they are lousy human beings who are making peoples' lives worse. They can tell themselves "capitalism" or whatever other name they want to give it, but they are making the world a worse place. And I'm under no obligation to like it, nor to refrain from complaint about it.
Instead, we have a classic bubble market. It's a market failure that makes almost everyone's lives worse, except for those arbitragers that are creating the bubble. I cannot make them stop doing what they're doing. I can think they are lousy human beings who are making peoples' lives worse. They can tell themselves "capitalism" or whatever other name they want to give it, but they are making the world a worse place. And I'm under no obligation to like it, nor to refrain from complaint about it.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
People buying up cheap, but limited supplies of ammo and reselling them at a markup are a symptom of the problem.
That problem is that currently there is such high demand for ammunition that it had completely out stripped the capacity of the industry to supply it.
This is going to be the way of things until one of two things happens; either demand goes down or the ammunition makers expand their factories.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
That problem is that currently there is such high demand for ammunition that it had completely out stripped the capacity of the industry to supply it.
This is going to be the way of things until one of two things happens; either demand goes down or the ammunition makers expand their factories.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Everybody now uses a "just-in-time" supply chain that is very vulnerable to disruption in order to minimize operating costs. Whether it is food, water or ammo, if you don't want to be subject to the whims of fortune of the just-in-time system, then you have to assume the responsibility of warehousing whatever it is you are buying.
I personally don't buy ammo at WalMart because that is like trying to feed a grizzly bear on three acorns a day - if you don't sell ammo in 1,000 round quantities, I'm probably not going to bother trying to buy 60 rounds a day so I can shoot on the weekend.
I personally don't buy ammo at WalMart because that is like trying to feed a grizzly bear on three acorns a day - if you don't sell ammo in 1,000 round quantities, I'm probably not going to bother trying to buy 60 rounds a day so I can shoot on the weekend.
Schwing
Member
This is a good point to make for other items besides ammo. I would apply this to food and household products as well. I get scoffed at for keeping a food and household product storage. It doesn't take an end of the world scenario to need it either. I live on the wasatch front and know that the big earthquake is comming sooner or later. When the roads are gone and the food trucks stop rolling, people are going to be glad they have it.
AKElroy
Member
Exactly right. No company can be successful making long-term investments on a short term market. WE are the ones that must prepare for this type of market disruption.
Speak for yourself there Elroy, I mean Tex!!!!
I for one and those I spend time shooting with would not "empty the shelves"
as you so elegantly opined. We would only buy what we need and leave the rest.
That mindset right there is part of the problem. Does what I mentioned describe you
or your actions ?
Let me see if I can follow your flawed logic here.
Someone who complains about greedy hoarders and flippers who
deny others who may be working or taking children to school at that time of day
are WORSE than the booger eating hoarders and flippers. Is that right ?
And before the ammo bubble, there was no need for this behavior. One could use the time at 6am to go jogging or to the gym or to enjoy breakfast with the family or do business with people in earlier time zones. Or just sleep late. Some of us do not choose to have our lives revolve around obtaining ammo. Except for bubble circumstances, there's no need for it.
I don't have to go at 6am to the store to buy milk. If there was suddenly a milk panic and a bunch of arbitragers decided they could corner the market on milk and re-sell at higher prices, though, I would have to. And I would have to make the choice between arranging my life around milk procurement or doing with less milk. And I would be entirely reasonable to think those arbitragers were big jerks. Because they are.
AKElroy
Member
Well, since I have not seen a stocked-shelf at retail for quite some time, I would say its not going to happen. If you want me to run the hypothetical of finding 40 bricks on the shelf at wallyworld, then dang straight. Load em' up. Now, if anyone else is in line, I would leave whatever the others wanted. But alone? Full shelf? Regular retail? It's going home with me.
AKElroy
Member
As for the current shortage, I have yet to open a store or wait in line for a box of ammo. I was forced to shell out 150% of retail because I ran flat out of .30-30, and that was the best deal I cold find on GB at the time. For everything else, I stocked up well over the years. As for .22lr, I am down to my last 3,000 rounds, so that is a worry. If I find it, I'm buying it.
Orion8472
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I would bet that most of these line waiters will go to any nearby gunshow and price the boxes 2,3, or even 4 times what they paid for it. And yes, if people would stop paying absurdly inflated prices, these guys will stop wasting their time to GO get ammo that they can't sell for much more than they bought it for. In other words, . . . STOP buying ammo at gunshows. If you're desperate, . . . just don't go out shooting until you are lucky enough to get some yourself at walmart or another local shop that doesn't screw people. If people would just have a small bit of resolve, these gunshow guys will stop doing what they're doing.
You won't see me purchasing ammo at gunshows.
You won't see me purchasing ammo at gunshows.
johnandersonoutdoors
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Kemper,
I had the same problem obtaining ammo. For a while there, my Walmart was putting the ammo out at 7am which was fine for me since I start work at 8am and had time to go by the store first. Then my Walmart switched their stock time to 8am. I was no longer able to line up. I asked the GM to consider a change back to 7 or 7:30am in consideration of folks to have to work at 8am and he did in fact change it back to 7:30.
As for your disdain for the hoarders, who is to say how much ammo someone else needs? If someone thinks they need a million rounds of .22 do you think you will be able to talk them out of it?
As far as your disdain for the resellers, I think it is misplaced. Without them you wouldn't have any ammo available. If the hoarders grab it all there won't be any left for you later in the day. Your only hope, since you cannot be there early in the morning, is the reseller. Without him all the ammo would end up in the hoarders or other shooters hands and there still wouldn't be anything left for you. At least if you have resellers in your area you have a good chance of getting ammo, albeit at a higher price. Believe me when I say the reseller is your friend. Because for the next few months or more, every shooter will be stocking up especially on .22cal. Unless you are an early bird there won't be anything left for you until everyone has enough to feel that they don't need anymore.
Personally, I will be probably be stocking up on .22cal to the tune of 30,000 or more rounds (that is about 55 bricks). Every shooter I talk to is planning on increasing the limits on what they "normally" keep on hand. So again, good luck since everyone and their brother is still needing/wanting .22cal for the foreseeable future.
I had the same problem obtaining ammo. For a while there, my Walmart was putting the ammo out at 7am which was fine for me since I start work at 8am and had time to go by the store first. Then my Walmart switched their stock time to 8am. I was no longer able to line up. I asked the GM to consider a change back to 7 or 7:30am in consideration of folks to have to work at 8am and he did in fact change it back to 7:30.
As for your disdain for the hoarders, who is to say how much ammo someone else needs? If someone thinks they need a million rounds of .22 do you think you will be able to talk them out of it?
As far as your disdain for the resellers, I think it is misplaced. Without them you wouldn't have any ammo available. If the hoarders grab it all there won't be any left for you later in the day. Your only hope, since you cannot be there early in the morning, is the reseller. Without him all the ammo would end up in the hoarders or other shooters hands and there still wouldn't be anything left for you. At least if you have resellers in your area you have a good chance of getting ammo, albeit at a higher price. Believe me when I say the reseller is your friend. Because for the next few months or more, every shooter will be stocking up especially on .22cal. Unless you are an early bird there won't be anything left for you until everyone has enough to feel that they don't need anymore.
Personally, I will be probably be stocking up on .22cal to the tune of 30,000 or more rounds (that is about 55 bricks). Every shooter I talk to is planning on increasing the limits on what they "normally" keep on hand. So again, good luck since everyone and their brother is still needing/wanting .22cal for the foreseeable future.
huntsman
Member
+1 but the same people who got caught with 1 box of ammo probably only have 1/2 box of cereal in the cupboard.
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