An Iraq War vet speaks at a D.C High school.....Mind blowing response

[hillbilly]

Below is an email I have received tonight, Sept 11, 2006, from a former student of mine whom I now count as a good friend.

This man is a decorated veteran (Purple Heart and Silver Star) of the Iraq war, who spent many years in the military before 9/11.

I asked his permission before posting his email, sans any identifying marks or info on it.

This account left me speechless.

hillbilly




This weekend I was in Washington DC for a Military Order of the Purple Heart weekend. One of the functions was going to a high school to tell them where we were on September 11, 2001 and what we did after 9/11.

After I spoke one junior asked if I thought I would regret, when I get older, that I killed so many innocent Iraqi militants as we invaded their sovereign nation. And how I felt about America's thirst for land and imperialism

I was speechless for a second and then I remembered a quote from former Secretary of State Colin Powell. I said, "The U.S. has sent many young men and women to fight in foreign lands but has never asked for any more land than is enough in which to bury those who did not return."

 

[beerslurpy]

The sort of treasonous attitude a little time on the front would cure. The problem with the Iraq war is that probably 50+ percent of the population thinks it is just something we are doing to amuse ourselves at the expense of innocent foreign peoples. No seems to see it as a matter of life and death for the Republic.

Compare today's attitudes to attitudes during WWII.

 

[Ivy Mike]

an appropriate answer might have been, - edited out -

 

[Nitrogen]

What did Iraq, or it's people ever do to the people of the United States to demand an invasion?

I don't understand what Iraq has to do with 9/11, and I wonder why that kid even brought it up, anyway.
Just gotes to show how little education our kids get these days.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Nitrogen, its just a talking point he heard on CNN that morning.

pay it no mind as it will be replaced by American Idol later on tonight.

 

[Ed Ames]

How does an invasion of Iraq guarantee a U.S. high school student's right to heckle someone? I just don't see the connection.

Iraq isn't about securing the freedoms of Americans... it may (MAY) be about giving freedom to people in another land -- though if we are trying to spread "what worked for us" why is it that the US has never proposed that ANY nation adopt the U.S. Constitution as their founding documents? Not Japan, not Iraq... we've had a hand in shaping a few new nations and we've never once asked them to adopt our form of government.

I certainly don't see how our invasion of Iraq is evidence that US soldiers protect US freedom today. Ouite the opposite. It looks like having a standing army allowed us to get into a big mess over there... and that big mess is being used to recruit terrorists... and terrorists are used as an excuse to curtail my civil liberties (e.g. my right to buy a 50BMG rifle in California) so the existence of those soldiers *reduced* my freedoms. I guess that's one good reason why many of our founding fathers were so opposed to maintaining a standing army.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I patiently await the day the troops return and these kids get their asses handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[Nitrogen]

Notice the minor difference:
Supporting the troops vs. supporting our leadership.

I'm suprised it only took one post for someone to see where I was going with that weird barb.

Our troops are doing a job their country asked them to do. Whatever that job is, our troops should be thanked endlessly for doing the work their country asks of them.

However, I think the high school kid was somewhat out of line, but he had a point. If I was the kid, hopefully I'd realise that it's not for our soldiers to question their orders. They must do what their country asks of them.

As you can probably guess, I do not agree with the war in Iraq, but that doesn't mean I'd disrespect our servicemembers like that student. Hopefully when he grows up, he learns the small difference.

I hope our future crop of citizens keep their penchant for questioning authority; it might be what saves us in the future; as the current group seems to be unable to question anything.

 

[10-Ring]

I just have a hard time listening to people who have forgotten what happened 5 years ago today and that those who instigated that event & those who follow that POV will be brought to justice

 

[Nitrogen]

10-ring: What does Iraq have to do with what happened 5 years ago today?
All Iraq has done is take troops from where they are needed: Afganastan, as well as being ready to protect us from whatever might happen tomorrow, or the next day, or the next week.

EDIT: It really scares me that people think our troops should come back and "hand asses" back to people who disagree wth them.

 

[22-rimfire]

E Ames: Right to heckle? In some countries, you can be executed for doing that. That is one of many rights which our military insures-including your "right" to free speech and to post dumb stuff in this thread.

 

[hillbilly]

Ed Ames wrote:

"Ouite the opposite. It looks like having a standing army allowed us to get into a big mess over there... and that big mess is being used to recruit terrorists... and terrorists are used as an excuse to curtail my civil liberties (e.g. my right to buy a 50BMG rifle in California) so the existence of those soldiers *reduced* my freedoms."


Yep. Right On. History began on 9-11.

Before Bush invaded Iraq, there were no Islamic terrorists. In fact Bush CAUSES Islamic terrorism.

In fact, it's not even really Islamic terrorism. It's all a plot by Bushco to curtail Ed Ames' rights.

There never were any events like the Islamic Revolution in Iran or all the Islamic hijackings and bombings in the 1970s and 1980s and 1990s.

Islamic radicals did NOT want to kill all us infidels merely for being infidels, at least not before Bushco invaded Iraq.

Before Bushco invaded Iraq, Islamic terrorists actually liked all us infidels and wanted to hug us and let us live in peace.

Iraq was a country of peace and love with gumdrop mountains and soda pop streams before Bushco invaded.

Iraq did not give sanctuary to one of the 1993 WTC bombers.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-09-17-iraq-wtc_x.htm

Iraq never, ever, ever, ever had any WMDs and did not have a history of gassing people to death.

Iraq never, ever, ever, ever had any sort of meetings or connections with or dealings with any terrorists, especially not the Islamic kind.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20030415-1939-war-abulabbas.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/16/iraq/main549591.shtml

Yes, it's Bush who is the REAL terrorist.....Bush and the STANDING ARMY....that's who the REAL terrorists are!!!!!!



hillbilly

 

[BADUNAME4]

Can't have peace without freedom. It's just as simple as that and Iraq is the focal point for that change in the Middle East. It'll either happen or we're dead.

 

[Nitrogen]

Hillbilly,

If Iraq sheltered one terrorist, then why don't we invade Saudi Arabia? Most of the terrorists were from that country. Instead, we're helping to prop that country up...

 

[striker3]

Ed Ames,

If we were not fighting this fight in a foreign land, we would be fighting it on American soil. The last time that we were attacked on our soil, over 3000 people died. It has taken 5 years for us to match that figure with combat deaths. Take a look at those numbers in perspective. 3000 people dead in one attack, and 3000 people dead in 5 years of fighting. Fighting done by an all volunteer force who knows the dangers of war and accept those dangers.

I would rather take the fight to them, wherever they may be, or wherever we can lure them to.

 

[Nitrogen]

PLF =! Al Qeda

Did you also forget where Iraq got the gas to gas it's own people? If they still had WMD's after the first gulf war, why havn't we found any?

 

[Nitrogen]

Medula:

I for one thank you for your service to our country.

My contention that seems to get lost in my passionate arguments is, that, I guess I really don't see Iraq as necessary. I'd rather have more troops helping out your effort in Afganastan, and have more of your warriors ready when and if the fit hits the shan again. I can't help but feel that Iraq is a distraction to what we need to do. Nothing I read seems to change my mind.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

While the Powell quote in accurate, his statement was not completely accurate. He apparently did not realize the lands acquired by the US in the Spanish American War where the US took possession of Puerto Rico and Guam, plus were then allowed to establish bases on Cuba and in the Philippines.

 

[coylh]

Was he expecting doe-eyed hero worship from high school students?

Seems like someone who has been in the military for any length of time would have a ready answer as to why he or she would invade a sovereign nation, occupy it, and kill innocent people there.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Medula, while I too agree that we have no business being in Iraq, I must disagree with your take on how to deal with terrorists.

Would you give up your weapons just because some foreign power told you to? How would that make you feel?
Now, couple that with reports of your neighbors being arrested and seeing your home being bombed.

How cooperative are you going to be?

We tried building houses with bulldozer's in Vietnam. It didn't work well at all and created a lot of problems. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The village is the only group that can effectively police itself. In this case, the Iraqis are the only ones who will be successful at rebuilding Iraq and combating terrorism in their home.
An all or nothing approach at solving this kind of problem, will only inflate the problem.

 

[p35bhp09]

I did my 4 years so I believe that I have the right to say I agree with the kid.
He could have worded it differently but in my book neither the military nor the troops are above criticism. The troops in Iraq aren't protecting my freedom, the ones in Afghanistan are. However, I do wish them all, no matter what country they are in, a safe and fast return and my prayers are with them.

 

[Ian]

No seems to see it as a matter of life and death for the Republic.

That's because it's got nothing to do with the "life and death of the Republic", any more than Vietnam did. Tell me, what possible outcome of the Iraqi occupation would result in greater freedoms here in the US? How is a soldier in Iraq doing anything to defend the Constitution?

 

[Jim March]

What did Iraq, or it's people ever do to the people of the United States to demand an invasion?

They committed the crime of allowing a psychotic murderous dictator to both rule them and threaten surrounding nations.

That crime can lead to the death penalty for a civilian population or members thereof.

Yes, I'm quite serious.

It sounds harsh but tyrrany doesn't happen by itself. It is always accompanied by a basic sickness in the culture of the people the tyrrany came from. It can be a failure of cowardice, such as in Cambodia where the main body of the people allowed a small murderous minority to kill ONE THIRD of the population...to this day a sick world record. Or it can be a failure in ability to recognize basic truths about how the world works - the Japanese people of 1938 or so failed to realize that no, the Emperor is NOT an infallible God and the Japanese people aren't inherently superior to anybody else. Cost 'em a LOT of dead bodies to learn those lessons.

And sometimes, that's just how it has to be.

Sometimes a sick culture heals on it's own over time without an outside intervension. I would argue that the common concept circa 1870ish of "the only good Indian is a dead Indian" in the US indicated one hell of a warped culture. We got over it, but it would have been justice if some of the bigger First Nations had scored equal-tech guns and the skills to use 'em and kicked our behinds all the way back to the original 13 colonies. Oh well.

This is one reason you don't want to be disarmed: you need the ability to solve your own nation's problems before somebody else does it for you.

 

[BADUNAME4]

This thread gives new meaning to "Computer Terminal Commando". Me, I'm sticking with the Joint Chiefs of Staff on this one. Give me Rummy.

 

[Dmack_901]

full of grammer errors:

We are not fighting people. We are fighting an idea(terrorist extreemism). And as we kill it's believers, the idea spreads. Accordingly the goal cannot be to kill the believers. Conversely, we cannot avoid killing them at the cost of American lives.

So the question is, 'How do you get rid of an idea?' As shown, it will not die out on it's own, at least not with the current system in the middle east. We've given it a hundred years. It's grown.

Before the Enlightenment, the Middle East and the West were effectively the same. With Democracy, the West became more liberal, open, etc.

Thus the believe is, overthrow of current regiems for democracies, while rising the volume of extreemism in the short term, will allow the Middle East will follow our path(human nature is not fundementally different, christianity and islam bot forbid much of western society and even speak to it's "putting to death"). As western society is adopted, fundementalists will stop attacking the west, just as western fundementalists don't attack western liberals, or anyone for that matter(think amish).