Angle of Fire in Self Defense

[nc76]

I was thinking and would like to hear some others thoughts on this. If faced with a self defense situation where you had to shoot at an aggressor, would it make sense to drop to one knee the angle of trajectory of your round would be going upward. I think this would help with the possibility of collateral damage of a round that misses the target. With the good guy still being liable for all of his rounds, this tactic may save a round from entering a innocent bystander or neighboring home, etc.... Also, by dropping to one knee you may be more stable in pressure situation. When on one knee you would still be able to retreat fairly quickly.

 

[Bubba613]

My strategy would be to fling as much lead at the SOB as I possibly could as fast as I can pull the trigger. My thinking is, big sky, little bullet. How often do you read about secondary damage, even in cases where cops have sprayed 40, 50+ rounds at the BG? Executing perfect ballet steps is beyond my ability now anyway and will be the last thing on my mind.

 

[withdrawn34]

Don't forget that if you are in a multi-story structure doing this may not be a great thing to do; but there may not be many good options.

 

[expvideo]

Just focus on rule #4 and you'll be fine. No need to work on dropping to a knee, unless that's what makes you comfortable. I'd concern myself more with putting rounds on paper quickly when practicing. But that's me.

 

[Pussywillow]

While it's a good idea to train (if possible) to fire from different shooting positions - kneeling being one of them - I don't think I'd "plan" on any specific tactic other than getting the weapon on target & pulling the trigger as necessary. Stopping the attack is going to be my priority & I'm not all that concerned with how that's done.

Being able to shoot kneeling, prone, on ones back... yeah, they're all great & very useful in their place. I suspect that the statistics will tell you that the most likely position you'll find yourself in is going to be whatever you were doing at "THE" moment... between 10 feet & contact distance. So training yourself to go into a specific position every time may be counterproductive.

Violent assaults are also a lot more dynamic than most people have been led to believe. Most people (many who've never dealt with an assault) think that they're going to have time to stand back & evaluate what's going on & then make the correct decision. Understandable then that so many people end up making the wrong decision, or no decision. The fewer variables the better.

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's going to depend on the exact situation. Sometimes it may be a good idea, and others it may not. For example, if you're on the street and there's a multi-story, clapboard apartment building just behind the BG, lowering your angle and shooting upwards isn't going to help. And dropping to one knee may be a bad idea if you might need to remain very mobile (or a squat might give you better mobility and an upward shooting angle).

Sometimes lateral movement will be a better idea. Under some circumstances it could give you a better back stop as well as moving you off the line of attack. Or if the back stop is a problem, shooting downward, i. e., shooting for the pelvis, may help.

Every situation is different, and this is another reason why training and practice can be so important.

 

[Odd Job]

In the late nineties in downtime Johannesburg a passer-by used that technique to take down a robber who had fired shots. The scene was a busy sidewalk and it certainly paid off at that time. I can't provide a link, it was in the local paper at the time.

 

[Zoogster]

How often do you read about secondary damage, even in cases where cops have sprayed 40, 50+ rounds at the BG?

Actualy it is very common. We had the statistics posted not too long ago.
It was a significant percentage of all police shootings, in the double digits.
I don't want to cite the wrong actual percentage, but it was very significant.



The thing is after a shootout with criminals (even that is an assumption) the police are the ones that brief the press on what happened. They often do not tell the story as an innocent bystander was shot by police. They mention people were hit and in what condition they are, not by who.
The news either assumes it was criminals intentionaly hit, or the criminals shot the innocent person.
The actual details usualy come out later after an investigation when the story is no longer worthy of front page news.

 

[BullfrogKen]

"Collateral damage" sometimes comes about even in police shootings. One police officer accidentially shooting another at a chaotic scene happens.


We are both morally and legally responsible for each round we fire, from the time it leaves the muzzle until its final terminance. Knowing the environment, and who is, or might be somewhere nearby in the area factors into where more safe and less safe directions are in the evironment. It might be up, it might be down. It might require a step off the line of force to the right to line up our shots with the block construction of a chimney, or brick wall, a shelf full of books, a refrigerator.


It would be a good idea to train your mind to search out, identify those things in the environment, and learn to use them to your advantage.

 

[Dday]

I'd focus less on worrying about angle and more on finding adequate cover and finding an escape route. make no mistake, I don't intend to flee, but it is a good idea to maintain high situational awareness. That means seeing all the bad guys, knowing where they are, understanding what they're armed with, what their intention is, and what you need to do to protect yourself and loved ones. To me dropping to a knee isn't an option unless I'm doing so to take cover behind something. Besides, dropping to a knee just slows my first shot and my move to flee should I need to run.

 

[HarleyFixer]

Generally you will be lucky if you have time to react period much less worry about what firing position is best for the situation. Practice from different positions, strong and weak hand, different lighting, and run in place for 5 min before shooting (simulate adrenalin). If possible use a blank silhouette and fire from supported (door frame) and unsupported. When you can do this and keep all shots within 8-10" up to 25 yards you will be physically ready for a defence situation. Then all you have to do is become psychologicaly prepared.

 

[wep45]

you point out a good shooting option, nc76...........that is just what i practice at home as a self defense position. .......if someone were to break in during the midddle of the night they would need to walk down a hallway to reach my bedroom.........at the end of the hallway i would be able to knee on the right side of the door way and shoot at the "target"..........this would leave the interloper with a much smaller object to see.

 

[louie19]

Kneeling seems good, so does propping yourself against a doorway and minimizing your profile. That's definitely something I'll have to practice at the range next time. Maybe I can prop up some cardboard to act as the doorway.

Its just too bad we can't have some sort of tactical sandbags in our hallways for home defense, since that'd make it harder to get a midnight snack!

 

[YammyMonkey]

Kneeling to make the most of your cover or concealment is one thing. Kneeling in the open is another. Stand in front of a mirror & compare where your head is while kneeling to the same general area of your body while standing. Most people will pull their shots low. Your head is now where your belly used to be. I, for one, would rather be gut-shot than face-shot.

There was a thread over on totalprotectioninteractive.com that recently addressed this & the consensus from guys like SouthNarc was that kneeling as a default is not a good idea.

 

[LKB3rd]

I have thought about the layout of my home and the path of bullets fired in likely situations I would find myself in in a home defense assault.
Obviously, out and about carrying, you can't do the same thing, but I would certainly be aware of it, and it is good to think of this sort of thing in advance(meaning now, not during an actual assault) so that it becomes part of your plan.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I was thinking and would like to hear some others thoughts on this. If faced with a self defense situation where you had to shoot at an aggressor, would it make sense to drop to one knee the angle of trajectory of your round would be going upward. I think this would help with the possibility of collateral damage of a round that misses the target. With the good guy still being liable for all of his rounds, this tactic may save a round from entering a innocent bystander or neighboring home, etc....

So, out of sight, out of mind. If your bullet misses the target and doesn't strike a person or home in the immediate vicinity, you think you are free and clear? So you miss your target and bystanders right here, do you know what bystanders there are 10-30 blocks away where the bullet may be impacting?

Also, by dropping to one knee you may be more stable in pressure situation. When on one knee you would still be able to retreat fairly quickly.

You might be able to retreat fairly quickly, but not as quickly as when you are already on two feet.

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

It would seem your mobility could be severely compromised by taking the proverbial Detroit Lions knee. If anything, distance to your target is more important, so he can't compromise your weapon. Can't move back on one knee.

 

[mercop]

Without a video showing the totality of circumstances it is hard to say. Is kneeling down and possibly launching a round into space better that putting and errant round 10 feet behind the bag guy.

Three things you can change in many situations are moment, light and angle. I doubt your primal mind would allow your trained mind to drop anchor during the middle of an attack.