Another One: SD Only- .357Mag or .45ACP?

[Socrates]

Okay, in all seriousness, citing actual experience and/or scientific proof, which round delivers a better chance of halting an assailant?

I have, and carry both. Given a choice, I always take heavy for caliber bullets, since most SD guns have shorter barrels, and, heavier bullets tend to create more resistance, and, loose less velocity. YMMV.

As John Linebaugh used to tell me, pistols are like a punch press, they punch a hole through the target, period. The bigger the hole, the better chance you have of getting your result. To compare the two calibers, you have to take specific loads, out of certain guns, and decide what you are going to shoot.

To answer your question: I think the .357, but, not for the reason you think.
I think the reason the .357 is so effective is flash and bang. A lot of those .357 shootings are at night, and, police using short barreled guns, bugs or otherwise, at point blank range. Much like a flash bang grenade, the .357's obnoxious, loud sound, combined with a large amount of powder burning outside the barrel, in a huge flash, combine to deafen, and blind the attacker, ending in a one shot stop. If you've ever shot a snubby, or been next to a guy at the range shooting a .357 snubby with full house loads, you'll have a really good idea of what I'm talking about.

That said, most 100-140 grain .357 bullets just don't penetrate enough to explain the great success everyone says about the .357 magnum. The 158-180's can. In 45 ACP, Double Tap has a 230 grain Gold Dot load, going 1010fps, that penetrates 15.5", and opens up to .95" doing it. That's a big hole.

With the .357, you have to slow the bullet down, keeping it from expanding, so it will penetrate more. Also, the .357 has less frontal area, and, since it's smaller, the chance of bullets failing to work is higher.

When in doubt, I like preexpanded bullets...

S esq.

 

[clang]

.357 magnum or .45 ACP?

The choice is between good and better - you decide which is which. If you go the .357mag route, I prefer heavier bullets - the old 158gr type.

You really need to think more about the platform that will be launching these projectiles. If she is going to carry, she will probably want something light. Most people don't like shooting full house loads out of lightweight guns. A 9mm or 38special or even something smaller may be all she can handle from a lightweight firearm. And better to have the lightweight 9mm, 380 or even 32acp that you carry, than the heavy .357magnum or .45acp that you left at home.

If this gun will be for home defense, make sure you buy something massive enough to tame some recoil, but still fits her hand well.

If your fiancee is big enough to handle the full house loads in a light gun - then be carefull not to ever get her too upset - one day she may beat the crap out of you!

 

[BikerRN]

On the other hand, a grain of unburned powder under the ejector star won't put your automatic out of action, and the cylinder won't fall off when you go to reload. (Both problems have been reported here fairly recently.)

Problems can and do develop with any man made item. That is why I "test" anything I carry.

I have had unburned powder under the ejector of a revolver before at the range, but not with good ammo in a well cared for revolver when firing the first couple of cyclinders full. This to me is more of a "range" issue than a "street" issue. The reason I say that is because on the "street" it is unlikely that I will fire a cylinder full, let alone a reloaded cylinder.

Besides, if I have a "problem" with the Primary Arm I will drop it and go for the BUG. I carry a BUG even when I carry an autoloader off duty. I have found that a BUG in a revolver format tends to be a "hair" more reliable than any BUG size autoloader due to the amount of "crud" they pick up from the locations a BUG is often carried in.

Biker

 

[MikePGS]

No disrespect intended, but if that's all she's intending to practice, and if marksmanship (markswomanship???) isn't a forte, perhaps a Mossberg 500 - 20 gauge with BB shot would be best.

That would be of course hitting the nail on the head. Sorry again HM, i know you just want a breakdown of the two rounds in which case i'd give the advantage to the .357... but if your not going to practice a lot with either of these rounds then odds are you won't shoot them well. A 20 gauge is a very lightkicking round, even loaded with buckshot. You'd be more likely to shoot well with such a lightkicking load than you would with a handgun, and as its been famously said before the buckshot out of a 20 gauge does damage that's the equivalent of 2 .44 mag slugs hitting someone simultaneously. You should at least look into it, but ultimately whatever you decide i just hope she's comfortable with the gun, and practices to the point of being proficient with it. And of course don't force her to shoot if she doesn't want to

 

[geekWithA.45]

A million GIs and another million cops can't be wrong.

Pick either.

 

[critrxdoc]

357mag is still the gold standard metric and always will be IMHO

 

[S&Wfan]

My wife votes for .45ACP hands down.

She "enjoys" shooting .45ACP but ain't fond of .357 at all.

That big ol,' dumb and slow bullet makes a BIG hole too that gives up nothing, IMHO to the mighty .357.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

I'd rather have 14 rounds of 45 than 6 or 7 rounds of 357.

Revolvers are obsolete. I stopped relying on them for self defense years ago.

ZM

 

[Schwebel]

I think you just need to take her to the range and fire a couple different calibers and configurations of guns. I think the platform that she shoots well is more important than the caliber when trying to pick a weapon. If she likes 1911's,...then .45 is ur answer. If she like polymer wonder guns, then you have plenty of calibers to choose from. If she likes wheelies, then a .357 is probally your answer. If this is only going to be a house gun, I think a 12 guage shotgun is a better answer for a home only weapon. A "crackhead nazi" as you put it won't stand a chance against against a handfull of buckshot at close range.

My gf shot about 6 different kinds and calibers of guns before she picked out her carry gun. She now carries a P239 DAK .357 sig, it was the gun she shot the best and felt most comfortable with, it happened to be the most expensive one she shot too,....go figure.

 

[BikerRN]

I'd rather have 14 rounds of 45 than 6 or 7 rounds of 357.

Revolvers are obsolete. I stopped relying on them for self defense years ago.

ZM

Zeke, I disagree. There is a lot of good work that can be done with a revolver. I carry an autoloader that is issued by my Agency. On my own time I will carry the "obsolete" revolver or two.

Why do you need 14 rounds of 45? Is your accurracy that bad that you have to "spray and pray"? If you are an On-Duty LEO I can see having the "normal" capacity magazines because the handgun is often used for "offensive" purposes by LEO's. In a true self defense encounter by a civilian the revolver works just fine. Granted, as an Off-Duty LEO I carry for protection of myself and my family, not the protection of society. I do not go looking to project myself in to "harm's way".

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against anyone except a criminal owning or using "Hi-Cap" magazines, I just think they are not the answer to tactical and accurracy problems. When LEO Agencies went from the revolver to the "bottomfeeders" there was a mindset change as well. Accurracy became less important.

If someone knows how to shoot a revolver well they can transistion to other firearms, like a Glock, really easily. That isn't the case in reverse. The Double Action Revolver is one of the hardest firearms to learn to shoot well, but once learned, is a skill that stays with you. I have yet to find any autoloader that "points" as well as my revolvers.

Also, full size revolvers are easier to hide in my opinion compared to their autoloader counterparts. I carry an N-Frame S&W 4"er Off-Duty with a J-Frame as a BUG. When I carry my Block Off-Duty it can be noticed much more easily, and I use and wear good leather for all my guns.

Malfunction Drill? If you have to do one in the middle of a gunfight as a civilian you are already dead. Sorry, but their is no do over. If I have a "problem" with the revolver I just cycle the trigger again. Granted, a true "jam" with a revolver will not clear as easy as in an autoloader, but either way, you're already dead at that point.

Most self defense encounters take place at "bad breath" distances. How sure are you that your autoloader will fire when you shove it hard in to the belly of your opponent? I know that my revolver will cycle the action at a time like this. Can you fire your autoloader from a jacket pocket and not have it malfunction? I know I can fire my five rounds of 38 Special in this situation and the only "problem" I might have is my jacket catching on fire.

Will your autoloader function properly if you can't get a good grip on it, or have to fire it one handed? Your support hand may be busy, remember we are talking "bad breath" distances here. You may be deflecting a knife or even a gun as you are shooting. What about when your opponnent's blood, skin and intestinal matter "blow back" on your gun from that belly shot? Will it jam?

No, revolvers are not obsolete.

Biker

 

[jeepmor]

If it is a CCW, the 45 for capacity and lower recoil considering it is for a lady.

If either cause her to develop a flinch, you are doing her a disservice.