Any suggestions on how to help stop "tipping"

[Wildfire]

Halo.

Hey there:
Halo is right. Studies show that 98% of flinching is created from sound not recoil.
My main suggested Idea was smaller gun, ear plugs under ear muffs and let her see a video of what she is doing. No mind games played here. Just simple truth. Possitive or Negative learning is learnig. She may not be hearing what she is being told, seeing is believing. I have had a lot of success with the cammera with guys that swear they do not flinch. After the video they know that they do. Most "say" I can't believe I did that.
Agian, it is extremely hard to trick any one into doing something different.
With the right gun and right conditions (sound lowered) less recoil and less percieved threat from the gun she will stop tipping......................

 

[CountGlockula]

Grab the G19 for her to practice on, because of the flat surface top of the slide.

Place a coin flat on top of the slide.

MAKING SURE THE GLOCK IS UNLOADED...

Have her dry fire and trying not to move or drop the coin.

Problem solved.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

Very interesting!

I read every one of the responses and not once did I see a suggestion to use CO2 training pistols. I have taught for years and have always started with CO2. Much cheaper, no recoil, no loud noises. Helps in training for sight alignment, trigger and breathing control, and target acquisition. Success breeds success. Learn slow and develop skills quickly.

Co2 can be used for tactical training, plinking, home clearing drills (with proper targets) in other words, all that a "real" gun can be used for, without the noise, smoke and expense. Build the skills, then fine tune it.

You'd be surprised how many big hulking man types can't shoot even a CO2 pistol or revolver, without displaying some really bad habits. I go back to mine whenever I realize I am doing something wrong. Figure it out with CO2 and apply it to the real stuff later.

 

[Harley Quinn]

The idea of the co2 is ok, I personally like to start um with the 22, noise is needed and good muffs are part of that. The idea of flinching, tipping or pushing into the pistol prior to firing is common, "bucking/bumping" is a term used also.

The idea is to teach them not to anticipate the shot. Once it is engrained it can be tough to break the habit, even if you go back to square one, when you get to the shooter that they were flinching with, it is back.

Some suck at shooting, simple. Mind over matter, is the key.

 

[Ed Ames]

Another viewpoint on the whole educational theory of needing loud noises.

The idea is to teach people to shoot without anticipating the shot.

People anticipate the shot in large part because of the loud noise... we humans have an ingrained startle response involving loud noises and we can develop a conditioned startle pretty quickly.

It is much harder to train people out of a flinch than to teach them to shoot in a way that doesn't develop a flinch in the first place.

Therefore it is better to start people off with quiet guns that don't encourage flinching. CO2, silenced .22, and similar are all excellent choices. From there they can move to louder guns with a sound initial skill set.


(Says someone who learned to shoot with a CO2 handgun when I was in the single-digit age bracket.)

 

[rooter]

Mix in some dummy rounds (3-4 per mag one time 1 the next, none the next) and watch her closely. IMO this makes the flinch more recognizable and she will be more aware of it as she shoots. She might be able to train herself out of it.

 

[BullfrogKen]

My advice? You won't like it.


Find someone else to coach her. It has nothing to do with your abilities or any lack of ability.

Spouses and significant others often carry too much baggage from our every day interactions and history to be the best person to teach each other.

To teach each someone, we must constructively criticize his/her actions. The dynamics of an intimate relationship brings barriers that undermine the teacher/student relationship.

Its not a knock on you. But that's my .02 cents.

 

[loop]

I had another thought on the subject.

When I got serious about shooting a .45 auto at first I tried to bring the sights back on target as quickly as possible. At some point I either decided or figured out that the sights don't have to come off the target.

It is all mental. There is a physical aspect to it, but it is incredibly trivial. Decide the sights will not come off the target and make it happen.

Quite simply, do not "allow" recoil to disrupt your sight picture.

I recently put 31 rounds of 45 acp into a six-inch circle (including two mag changes) in 17 seconds. Since I made the "decision" I've won three IDPA matches in a row.

My accuracy has improved so much it is stunning.

Perhaps you have to have an outside instructor, perhaps you have to start with a weaker caliber, but most people have the ability to overcome the problem. They simply have to recognize it and "decide" to overcome it.

Once the decision is made the ability will come to the fore.

Personally, I think shooting is 99 percent mental. Once you decide to do the things that make you a good marksman you will become a good marksman.

JMHO

 

[1911 guy]

Two answers.

First, the one that's detailed and thought out.
Quote:
Basically she will shoot the first 8 rounds out of the Sig OK

Alright, so why push her beyond that threshhold and make her flinch? Get 8 good rounds off, go to the P22 she shoots well for more range time. Newbies learn by gradually pushing the envelope (and that envelope varies by individual) rather than going whole hog.

Are you having her bring the handgun down after each shot/several shots? A flinch is more likely to develope if one just sticks the pistol out and keeps hammering away. Try doing presentation from high ready (chest high, muzzle foreward, NOT "full sabrina") and making two good shots. Return to ready.

Dry fire. Also with presentation, not just mindlessly clicking away. Engage the brain in a task, not just the index finger.

Ball and dummy drill. Yep even two at a time can benefit from it. Introduce it as a malfunction clearing exercise, kill two birds with one stone.

Now the best answer. Bullfrog Ken said:
Spouses and significant others often carry too much baggage from our every day interactions and history to be the best person to teach each other.

I taught my wife the basics, then passed her off to an instructor I trusted to do it right. I've coached a lot of folks, my wife isn't one of them. Now that she's an accomplished shooter, I'll give small hints, advice, etc. But hammering down good technique isn't "together time".

 

[kludge]

1. dry firing
2. ball and dummy
3. tighter grip with the shooting hand
4. lean forward a little while shooting

When dry firing, the focus should be on the sight picture and maintaining the sight pitcure all through the trigger squeeze and the follow through.

Your body will do #3 and #4 in anticipation of the recoil (aka flinch), so do them preemptively.

To see #3 in action, take a 1" dowel rod and hold it like you would grip a pistol. First hold it loosely and take note of the position. Then squeeze the dowel tightly. Notce how the dowel rotates in your grip.

Repeat with an unloaded pistol, notice the sight picture moves down and to the left.

When done quickly, as when the pistol is firing it can jerk the gun completely off target.

And yes, teaching a SO is difficult because observations become criticism. We humans can't help it, it's how we're wired.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Flinching is to be accepted. A shooter has to come to terms with it. Some call it bucking when shooting a pistol. It is an unconscience reaction. Start small caliber 22lr get them used to that.
Graduate to 9 mil and work with them. Let the shooter know that flinching is normal and accepted but they have to overcome it. Let them get used to firing and I mean firing alot. Don't force the shooter to fire when they don't want to. It is in their interest to do so. Never over caliber a new shooter. Let them understand that it is a handgun after all. Teach them that a handgun's recoil is designed to be absorbed quite comfortably. Make sure you tailor the proper "fit and finish" of a particular pistol to the person.
I start with a ruger markII and work through the XD 9mil and 45 ACP. My style of teaching includes single handed right, single handed left and both handed.