Anyone see the new Sig 365?

[TarDevil]

Yeah, I don't believe you.That's a made up story. Maybe once in a lifetime, but to say it happens to you often is either a tall tale, or you don't know how to put a gun in a holster correctly. It's one or the other.

Also, nobody relies on a manual safety to prevent a gun accident anymore than one would rely on a blade guard to prevent a wood-shop accident. It's just an extra safety feature that decreases the likelihood of an accident. People make mistakes all the time. It's harder to screw up twice than it is to screw up once. That is why I like a manual safety. I like a DA trigger because it makes screwing up once a lot more difficult. Like you said, different strokes.

Promise you...won't lose a second's sleep whether you believe me or not. Carry every single day, for 7 years. Always check the safety after holstering.

A personal note...calling someone a liar is a very serious offense. Speaks volumes about you and your own credibility... or rather, lack of.

 

[Bigmike79]

Promise you...won't lose a second's sleep whether you believe me or not. Carry every single day, for 7 years. Always check the safety after holstering.

A personal note...calling someone a liar is a very serious offense. Speaks volumes about you and your own credibility.

I don't carry single action guns......jokes on you.

Also, my credibility can be challenged when I make outrageous claims on the interwebs such as the one YOU MADE.......lol

 

[zaitcev]

Also, nobody relies on a manual safety to prevent a gun accident anymore than one would rely on a blade guard to prevent a wood-shop accident.

The blade-guard analogy is completely bogus, because its presence is not going to kill you, while having a safety on a self-defense handgun will. There's a massive difference in stakes involved.

 

[Bigmike79]

The blade-guard analogy is completely bogus, because its presence is not going to kill you, while having a safety on a self-defense handgun will. There's a massive difference in stakes involved.

One is far more likely to accidentally shoot themselves or others than to ever shoot a bad guy. Us gun guys hate hearing this because it sounds like typical liberal banter, but I can assure you that it's 100% true.

A manual safety can be trained around in regards to both using one or not using one, but studies have shown that gun safety trumps usability it keeping people safe as much as nobody wants to hear it.

 

[TarDevil]

sin

I’m kind of scratching my head here also about the regardless of carry style the safety would often be off comment but I’m not quick to discredit someone else or judge them either. I think I’d find a gun and carry style that didn’t present this problem if I were him.

This is, in part, a matter of semantics. "Often" to me, in a carry gun, would be more than twice...enough to make me keenly aware that safeties are a help but not to be trusted. I have friends who report similar frequency of occurrence, others who say it has never happened. I dunno.
Carry style...I've tried most everything. Maybe it's just my particular build or activities. Can't do much better as far as holsters... High Noon, Crossbreed, Triple K, Zlogonje. Point is... the gun is always to be treated as we've taught so I don't consider this a matter of significance.
I'm currently unemployed, result of caring for my father until his death. But when (if) I'm gainfully employed again, my experiences have convinced me to migrate to guns without safeties.

 

[valnar]

I can't even fathom wanting to carry a gun with a (separate) manual safety, outside of what's inside the gun. Between DAO revolvers, DA/SA pistols and most modern striker guns, it's pretty much standard. The last thing you want to do is to remember to turn off a safety when seconds count.

Yes, I know the 1911 folks will disagree with me. I perfectly admit I don't have the training of our seasoned veterans.

 

[paulsj]

Why does one need safety lever on 1911? Is it because if dropped accidentally and falls on hamer spur it will go bang?

 

[zaitcev]

Why does one need safety lever on 1911? Is it because if dropped accidentally and falls on hamer spur it will go bang?

There is no good reason for the manual safety on 1911. The half-cock protects against slide movement and grip safety protects against objects getting into the trigger guard. However, we may know it now, but best and brightest didn't know it back in 1911. It was a cutting edge technology and there was no statistics to speak about.

Moreover, the military brass love to cling to outmoded ideas. Remember that U.S. Army made Glock and SIG to put manual safeties into their submissions for M17. In military ministries of industrial nations, nobody wants to take responsibility for any increase in accidents, which may or may not happen, should safeties be removed. But nobody same cares for grunts killed because they failed to disengage the safety - it's a problem for soldier's families, not procurement staff.

 

[M1key]

QUOTE: Why does one need safety lever on 1911? Is it because if dropped accidentally and falls on hammer spur it will go bang?

Or the muzzle...if it doesn't have a firing pin safety.

M

 

[Doublehelix]

It's just an extra safety feature that decreases the likelihood of an accident.

Yes. And your point???

 

[Hasaf]

. . . I found the safety off my 1911 off at the end of the day. He said he never had that problem then looked at his gun and the safety was off. We both got a good laugh out of that one and it couldn’t have been timed any better. I said “Exactly”. No big deal really because the trigger will still not be pressed while holstered but it’s a weird feeling when you expect it to be on.. . .

This is precisely the reason I stopped carrying my Colt .380 Government Model. I was finding the safety off too many times. As you say, it really isn't that big a deal. It has a Series 80 firing pin block and a holster that covered the trigger; however, it annoyed me.

I ended up replacing it with a Makarov for a while as a daily carry pistol and later on a Glock 42, then back to a Kimber Micro. While the Kimber is, essentially, the same gun it has a stiffer safety detent (the notch is drilled deeper). I tried replacing the safety lever; but it was still the same problem. Yes, I should just take a drill press to it. Someday I probably will. However, I have been looking at the Browning 1911-380. It is in the form that I clearly like and it has the grip safety that both the Colt and the Kimber lack. Before I do that I will throw more money at the Glock to see if I can turn it into something I like (the Glock 42 has the worst trigger I can recall, I recently read a good write up on why it is so bad and I have some parts on order to see if I can address it).

So yes, I went from bad safety (Colt) to no safety(Makarov and Glock). Why was I willing to do that? Because the Glock and Makarov were designed to work with no safety and, as all are aware, make up for it with a long, heavy, trigger pull. The Colt was not designed to be carried with the safety off.

As far as the new Sig 365, no, I don't think it will be high on my list. Not meaning to reignite an old debate; but, for every day defensive carry I don't feel that the 9mm is a better choice. The only thing that could push me into the 9mm camp are the features of some of the newer 9mm pistols, not the caliber itself.

The only other pistol caliber that interests me is the .22 tcm. It seems that it may be even better than the 5.56 for loosing energy on impact with, pretty much, anything. Again, no intention of reigniting any over worked debates; but I am very concerned with the risks of over penetration. This is one of the reasons that the 9mm leaves me cold. Again back to the topic, I am not too excited about the Sig 265 because I am not too excited by 9mm as a defensive round.

All that being said, I do like to see now models and developments.

QUOTE: Why does one need safety lever on 1911? Is it because if dropped accidentally and falls on hammer spur it will go bang?

Or the muzzle...if it doesn't have a firing pin safety.

M

As a comment, many 1911 style pistols do have a firing pin block. That was the main difference when the series 80 was introduced. So some do and some don't, it isn't a clear cut "the do/they don't" thing.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't carry single action guns......jokes on you.

Also, my credibility can be challenged when I make outrageous claims on the interwebs such as the one YOU MADE.......lol

I find it pretty silly that you would stride in here and make comments basically calling TarDevil a liar. Why would you doubt his comments? Maybe he needs a new or different holster. Maybe the safety on his gun is worn and engagement is not what it should be. It's one thing for you to make a suggestion that if his safety is getting disengaged he needs to do something different. It makes no sense for you to call his comments tall tales or imply that he is lying. What would his motivation be? TarDevil has been interacting on this forum for many years, and while I don't always necessarily agree with him on every issue, I have never had any reason to doubt his honesty.

One is far more likely to accidentally shoot themselves or others than to ever shoot a bad guy. Us gun guys hate hearing this because it sounds like typical liberal banter, but I can assure you that it's 100% true.

If that is your belief, then sound logic dictates you will be safer by getting rid of all your guns. You will reduce the chance of injury or death to yourself or your loved ones. Please get rid of your guns.

 

[Bigmike79]

I find it pretty silly that you would stride in here and make comments basically calling TarDevil a liar. Why would you doubt his comments?

If that is your belief, then sound logic dictates you will be safer by getting rid of all your guns. You will reduce the chance of injury or death to yourself or your loved ones. Please get rid of your guns.

Because his ridiculous story is obviously complete BS. He's making up stories to justify his opinion, so I called him out on it. The last thing you want is for some young impressionable newb to read something like that and think it's real because it's not.

Statistically speaking, I would be safer not owning a gun. So would you or any other gun owner. The same could be said for owning a car, boat, or even a bicycle. While there is no way to remove that chance of an accident with these things, we create ways to make them safer with things like warning lights, radios, or other safety features. There is a fine line between functionality and safety with this type of stuff. People will argue as to where that line is until the end of time. I lean more towards the safety end of things over functionality with firearms. What can I say, I spent a large portion of my undergrad studying decision science. I probably don't think the same way as a lot of other gun owners. It's a hobby that's riddled with uneducated idiots to be honest.

 

[JR24]

I must also be a liar as I have had the safety disengage in holster/holstering on 3 different types of gun over the years. 1911s (multiple, either from extended or ambi levers) a BHP MKIII and the Ruger SR9c.

Then again, what loudmouths on the internet call me never much bothered me.

 

[zaitcev]

So yes, I went from bad safety (Colt) to no safety (Makarov and Glock). Why was I willing to do that? Because the Glock and Makarov were designed to work with no safety and, as all are aware, make up for it with a long, heavy, trigger pull.

The model 1951 PM was intended to be used with safety. It replaced the model 1933 TT that indeed did not have safety. The PM safety is mounted on the slide and consists of a notched cross-shaft that prevents the hammer from contacting the firing pin. It does not prevent trigger from releasing the hammer. It is a robust and reliably kind of safety, but as far as field operation goes, it's inferior to the 1911. The main hazard is that the user attempts to fire and then fails to realize that the safety is on when the hammer clicks, executes a tap-rack instead of disengaging the safety. Because of that concern, some officers carried PM decocked but with the safety off. Officially it was not permitted, for pretty much same reasons American military establishment insists on it. In addition, the gun wasn't drop-safe.

 

[TomJ]

Because his ridiculous story is obviously complete BS. He's making up stories to justify his opinion, so I called him out on it. The last thing you want is for some young impressionable newb to read something like that and think it's real because it's not.

Statistically speaking, I would be safer not owning a gun. So would you or any other gun owner. The same could be said for owning a car, boat, or even a bicycle. While there is no way to remove that chance of an accident with these things, we create ways to make them safer with things like warning lights, radios, or other safety features. There is a fine line between functionality and safety with this type of stuff. People will argue as to where that line is until the end of time. I lean more towards the safety end of things over functionality with firearms. What can I say, I spent a large portion of my undergrad studying decision science. I probably don't think the same way as a lot of other gun owners. It's a hobby that's riddled with uneducated idiots to be honest.

I understand you're new to this forum, so please take a minute to read our rules of conduct. One of those rules is to disagree with someone's opinion all you want, but we don't attack each other here. Calling someone you've never met a liar based on I don't know what information is out of line. As 460Shooter pointed out, go ahead and make constructive suggestions, but when you post that kind of nonsense the moderators rightfully shut down the thread and the rest of us miss out on potentially helpful information.

 

[Bigmike79]

I understand you're new to this forum, so please take a minute to read our rules of conduct. One of those rules is to disagree with someone's opinion all you want, but we don't attack each other here. Calling someone you've never met a liar based on I don't know what information is out of line. As 460Shooter pointed out, go ahead and make constructive suggestions, but when you post that kind of nonsense the moderators rightfully shut down the thread and the rest of us miss out on potentially helpful information.

Understood

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I must also be a liar as I have had the safety disengage in holster/holstering on 3 different types of gun over the years. 1911s (multiple, either from extended or ambi levers) a BHP MKIII and the Ruger SR9c.

Then again, what loudmouths on the internet call me never much bothered me.

LIAR!

Because his ridiculous story is obviously complete BS.

Based on what evidence?

He's making up stories to justify his opinion

You have presented absolutely no evidence that he is being untruthful. You don't think it's likely, so you call it a lie? And you used your opinion that he is not being truthful to make up the story that he is a liar. Look at your argument in a mirror and see the flaw in your logic.

 

[Walkalong]

After 5 pages we are more off topic than on, and we don't do personal insults here.