Anyone taking advantage of the new .410 ammo intended for the Taurus Judge?

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Lovesbeer99

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Seams to be a few .410 rounds designed (or marketed) toward the Taurus Judge. If they work well in a snub nose wouldn't they be great in a .410 18" barrel pump or double? I'd think this would be a great close range home defense combo.

I'm wondering if this is a new reason to buy a 410 shotgun for HD. Also, I"m aware that some of these rounds have been around for a while. There is a .410 derringer that was selling these a few years ago.
 
Cabela's here recently had a special run of Marlin 1895s in .410.

If I had any clue what I'd use the thing for, I'd have bought one.:)

I suppose HD would be a good excuse. An 870 Express would do it a lot cheaper, albeit with less panache.:D
 
AB - friend had bought the Winchester lever 410 when it came out some years ago - scared the ever-loving you-know-what out of the trapper on the skeet field who thought he had a 30-30........truly funny to see, and was a lot of fun shooting skeet and 5-stand with it
 
I think the Marlins were Cylinder bore. The Marlin Model 410 used to be. Maybe the new ones had screw-ins. I suppose I should have looked.:)
 
the new Hornady 4pellet 00 buck is a good start. Does this load make anyone think about a 410 for HD? What I'm getting at is that the Judge has made a splash in the .410 self defense world. So why not in a long gun? If there a specific HD loads, and not bird shot that can also be used for HD, that is a legitimate load in a snub nose, why not use the same load in a short barrled pump or SxS?
 
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I've seen some Federal .410 loads marked hand gun here locally. Would these be worth trying in a .410 long gun?
 
I've seen some Federal .410 loads marked hand gun here locally. Would these be worth trying in a .410 long gun?
Click to expand...

That's what I'm trying to ask? .410 seams to be acceptable as a hand gun load, but once you say shotgun, it seams week. Honestly 5 00 buck moving at 1300 fps has to do a lot of damage at 20 feet don't you think? There is not a room in my house longer than 19 feet and 30 feet from the end of the hallways. If a 38 special is a good round, or a 45 colt, wouldn't this .410 hand gun load be great in a 18" barrel shotgun?
 
interested to hear what the reloaders think.

My understanding of the .410 "handgun" ammo is that it uses faster burning powder. .410 shotgun ammo uses very slow burning powder, so shooting it out of a very short barrel yields very low fps...

I'm not sure that it follows that shooting the handgun ammo in a shotgun=better?
 
Of course it would work just fine, the ammo has no idea what its being shot out of. I would guess the hg 410 load is a lower flash powder, why wouldn't this be ok in a sg.

There isn't a magical world that firearms exist in, if 4 OO buck pellets coming out of a handgun scare the crap outof you, I'm guessing the same result if they slide out of a longer bbl.
 
I have no experiance with the judge, but I use a 410 shotgun as a home defense gun. I use #6 shot since overpenetration is a serious concern in my situation. The 12 gauge advocates will tell you the 410 is all but worthless for home defense, but a 2.5 inch shell of #6 shot out of a 410 shotgun will hit with muzzle energy around .357 magnum levels. Ill admit that birdshot lacks serious penetration, but at across-the-room distances im convinced it would take the wind out of anyone's sails.

Ive tried out the Winchester 2.5 inch buckshot (for shotgun, not handgun) and its a pretty wicked load. 3 pellets of 000 at 1300 fps. I would use that if I lived alone in a rural area and didnt have to worry about overpenetration.
 
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When i picked up a Saiga 410 (21.5"bbl) a few weeks ago, the only 410 ammo in the store was the Federal "handgun" 410 OOO buck....so i got two boxes for instant gratification.

I found that the ammo was good but the S410 sights are not....so an AK scope rail and a BSA reddot from other weapons later, i was in business. A couple days after sighting in, a groundhog was out on the lawn... about 25-30 yards, i fired once and i think he caught 2 or 3 of the 4 balls, which rolled him over, and then he ran about 15 feet, and was done.

In a handgun, I imagine that the accurate range would be somewhere within reach, so a knife would work too....but in a 21.5" barrel the buckshot stayed tight and had good power at range.
 
A guy here locally did a test with the Federal stuff, though not a gelatin one, water jugs will work as a substitute :D His post below:

O.K. I did a VERY rudimentary field test of my Taurus "Judge" 4" barrel "Ultra-Lite" for HD purposes.

I tried two different ammo manufacturers, both in 2-1/2" .410 one in "000 Buck", the other "0000 Ultra-Buck".

First I tested for penetration.
Targets were 4 milk-jugs, filled with water, taped together in a line, with one layer of insulated underwear (long-johns), and one layer of medium weight denim (blue lean leg), taped to the front of the target to simulate a shirt and blue-jean jacket.
From a distance of 7 yards (21'), here are the results,

Paraklese Technologies '0000" Ultra Buck (.375" ball, 75 grain) 3 balls per round. Advertised at 1200fps, and 725FPE
Paraklese passed through three jugs and penetrated the fourth, but did NOT exit. Of three pellets, only one hit the target on first shot, two on the second, and subsequent shots.

Federal Premium .410 HANDGUN "000 Buckshot" 4 pellets (copper-plated) advertised at 1200 fps
Federal Premium passed through ALL FOUR JUGS, and a 1/4" sheet of plywood (Luan)

Next I shot for pattern.

Paraklese= 5 shots- average about 8-10" pattern at 21'

Federal Premium= 5 shots average ONLY 4" at 21' ! All four pellets VERY tightly grouped!
The Federal Premium is, in my opinion, just that. Premium defensive handgun ammunition!
16"+ of penetration, INCLUDING CLOTHING, that's PLENTY proof for me
__________________

The Federal stuff has a "sabot" type of wad, instead of a traditional wad. Like a sabot with fourcavities inside. When we tested it using a friend's Sagia, we were getting a pattern of 3" at 25 yards, compared to the almost over 12" with normal 0000 buck. The velocity was much lower out of the handgun. Would it make me buy a Judge, naw! Would it make me make an offer to my friend who is considering selling his .410 Sagia? Yeah. :)

I have not heard about the Hornady stuff, but you can bet your bippy I will try to get my friend to run some through his (after I buy it! :D ).
 
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HUM
My setup in the Judge
1st round #4 Shot-attitude adjuster
2nd round if needed 000 by Federal SD made for judge
3rd round .45 long colt (the I'm convienced the muther is done round)
4th round Stand By.45 long colt
5th round Burbon and Coca Cola
 
410 for home defense ??

An intruder in a home down the road from my farm was killed a few years ago from a single blast of #6 shot from a 410 single-shot shotgun. The home invader was walking out the door with a computer when he was confronted by the homeowner , who grabbed the 410 from his backyard garage where he was working. The intruder shot at the homeowner with a revolver and missed but the 410 put him down and out quickly. It was ruled self defense by the officer on the scene. That said, I would prefer the use of at least a 20 guage, which I use, with 20 pellets of #3 buckshot. Now don't get me wrong , there are some ammo choices for the 3 inch 410 that is acceptable , especially the 5 OO buckshot load or OOO buckshot loads that to me would be quite adequate if I had a 410.
 
BattleChimp thanks for the data on 410 ammo

Now we are talking good stuff for the "JUDGE" at room distances that to me are acceptable. Hmmmm, do I want one?? You got me thinking.
 
I'm wondering if this is a new reason to buy a 410 shotgun for HD
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you mean "is this a new GOOD reason to buy a .410 shotgun..."

No. There is no good reason to buy a .410 shotgun for SD. Any gun is better than no gun, but it's just foolish to deliberately buy a shoulder arm that is so underpowered, with the intent of using it for protection. Even if low recoil is vital, any magnum handgun cartridge rifle will be more effective for similar (low) recoil .

If you commonly encounter snakes, a Judge might potentially be useful. For SD again people? Any "duty caliber" handgun will be more effective.

John
 
What I know is that real-world experience and facts beat conjecture and fantasy. That's what I know.

A .410 Federal slug, from a shotgun barrel, generates 762 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. This has dropped to 574 at 25 yards. This is decent, but not as good as any good magnum handgun cartridge from a rifle, as I helpfully mentioned.

The Federal .410 Judge 000 load has 4 buckshot leaving the muzzle at 1200 fps. Each 000 buckshot weighs about 1/6 oz, or about a little less than 73 grains each. You're looking at approximately 292 grains @ 1200 fps from the Judge. This sounds impressive until you understand these are buckshot, which rapidly lose energy due to shape, and that you're shooting round balls from a 4" tube.

A Federal 180-grain .357 HP, from a rifle, generates 960 ft-lbs of energy, and still has more energy at 25 yards than the .410 Slug does at the muzzle.

Shooting buckshot from a 4" tube is a gimmick, and silly for a number of reasons, including range limitations and liability. I do NOT believe the Judge is without a mission: it could certainly be useful for those who might encounter poisonous snakes frequently. LOADED WITH GOOD .45 COLT AMMUNITION, the Judge may also be useful for self-defense.

Regards,

John
 
Mostly I agree with Mr. Shirley here. But this:
The Federal stuff has a "sabot" type of wad, instead of a traditional wad. Like a sabot with fourcavities inside. When we tested it using a friend's Sagia, we were getting a pattern of 3" at 25 yards, compared to the almost over 12" with normal 0000 buck. The velocity was much lower out of the handgun.
Click to expand...

got my attention. If the mv of that load fired out the judge is at or above 1200fps over a chrono, and the patten was at or under 8' @ 25yds out of the pistol, I'd maybe test it farther. If not? I'll stick with a good 45 colt load, no question.
 
Ben Shepherd said:
Mostly I agree with Mr. Shirley here. But this:

got my attention. If the mv of that load fired out the judge is at or above 1200fps over a chrono, and the patten was at or under 8' @ 25yds out of the pistol, I'd maybe test it farther. If not? I'll stick with a good 45 colt load, no question.
Click to expand...

My chrono of that load didn't give anything like those kind of velocities. BUT ... I don't know if there was anything about the load that might have screwed up the chrono. I -did- see faster velocities out of the Winchester 3 pellet round, which I would expect from pushing 1 less pellet with a similar powder charge.

Taurus Judge Ultralite, 4" barrel, 2.5" chamber
000 buckshot loads
Fed 859, 874 and 868 FPS
Win 981, 928 and 875 FPS
#9 shot (for reference)
Rem 901, 955 and 930 FPS

The Fed round DOES give a much tighter pattern, in a rather vertical line, not much horizontal spread at all. Both have sufficient energy at SD ranges to make the guy on the wrong end of the barrel have a very very bad day.
 
a chronograph is a projectile stop watch close screen starts watch and far screen stops watch

win has 3 pellets=shorter string = less time = higher velocity

fed has 4pellets,,,,,,,,

wonder if the velocitys the same for both?
 
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