Anyone taking advantage of the new .410 ammo intended for the Taurus Judge?

[armsmaster270]

You can get "Snake Loads" in just about all SD calibres I have them in 38/357, 9mm, 40, 44, and 45 auto.

 

[snooperman]

" Handguns" magazine this month

Had an excellent article about the new federal .410 ammo for the Judge and it had a velocity of 850 ft/s at the muzzle with a 4" group at 25 feet. The 2 1/2 inch ammo had 4 OOO buckshot at 60 gr each . That is better than other reports that I have seen.

 

[RandKL]

Uh Uh

I agree, DS.

I sometimes wonder if half these folks actually *do* argue the way they do because they don't catch themselves doing it or that they think no one is going to catch it. It makes following a topic pretty danged hard to do when everyone is arguing their own point and not the topic.

Btw, JShirley, the topic *was* new, higher powered/faster ammo shot from a shotgun....not common Fed 1/4oz slugs again nor "shooting round balls from a 4" tube". You're switching back and forth in your argument so fast even *I'm* having a hard time following it.

Paraklese ammo was mentioned so let's look at that. Let's see, one Paraklese slug is 168 grain and makes 900ftlbs at the muzzle....what do you reckon that makes at say, 10 feet? How about 10 yards? 25 yards is, after all, a bit long for "self defense" range.

How about a Paraklese 220grain slug at 1,350fps? How about a five pellet load of 0000?

The Fed 000 you mentioned isn't coming out of a 4" tube, either. It's from a side by side with 18.5" barrels. Remember the "I'm wondering if this is a new reason to buy a 410 shotgun for HD"?

Yours isn't the only confusing argument, either. Not by far. Yours just happened to be the one I had just read when I replied.

rich

 

[plumberroy]

I bought a box of federal 410 handgun #000 buck Mainly because I have read it groups good I wanted something to convince coyotes to leave my beagles alone. First thing I did was cut one a part the wad is not molded to fit each ball like a sabot, but it is thick and harder than a standard wad. The buckshot is copper plated and hard ,which in my discussions with James Gates of dixie slugs I have learned is the key to getting big for bore buckshot to group, I have fired 5 rounds of this ammo through a H&R youth 410 22 inch barrel at 25 paces groups were 3 pellets landing in a 2-2 1/2 triangle with the forth a round 2 inches to the side I am going to shoot it out to 40 yards ( my max range with a slug) to see how it preforms. At 25 paces it would put a wompin' on a yote which is what I want it for
Roy

 

[chuckusaret]

I have a Bond derringer .45/.410 and also a Marlin Model 410 lever action shotgun that I use the .410 pistol ammo in. I picked up the shotgun at a yard sale for $50 after some idiot had done a hatchet job cutting the barrel down from 22" to 18.5". I must say the Bond using .410 shells is very very loud. and the pattern is at least 9-10 feet or more at 25 yds. I have not fired any handgun rounds thru the shotgun as of yet. I was also very lucky and picked up 10 boxes of Federal .410 Handgun Ammo at Wal Mart for $7.95 per box of 20.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

A .410 Federal slug, from a shotgun barrel, generates 762 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. This has dropped to 574 at 25 yards. This is decent, but not as good as any good magnum handgun cartridge from a rifle, as I helpfully mentioned.

The Federal .410 Judge 000 load has 4 buckshot leaving the muzzle at 1200 fps. Each 000 buckshot weighs about 1/6 oz, or about a little less than 73 grains each. You're looking at approximately 292 grains @ 1200 fps from the Judge. This sounds impressive until you understand these are buckshot, which rapidly lose energy due to shape, and that you're shooting round balls from a 4" tube.

JShirly - the .410 slug is more powerful than a .38spl or 9mm handgun so why do you say it's under powered? It's less powerful than a .357 or 20g but more powerful than a 38spl or .380 or 9mm?

You don't thinkg a 410 slug from a 20" barrel at inside the house distances, like 20 feet, would be effective to stop an attack?

 

[Grey_Mana]

Are there any jurisdictions in the US, where a Judge loaded with a .410 shell would be less regulated or less liable for legal trouble, than the same or a different pistol loaded with a .45 cartridge?

 

[Paraklese]

New to this forum so I must apologize in advance for any breach here. Personally i have an 1100 Remington AND an 870 AND a Mossie 500 20 for mommie and have access to a .410 Siaga. Were i knowingly going into a fight I'd reach for the 1100 with 15 pellet 00 or 8 pellet 0000. However, my blushing bride is 5' 2" and can barely lift the 1100. I have the 20 for her, but after today I would not hesitate for a second to let her use the Siaga. Feel free to watch the vids so you can see with your own eyes what a .410 can do when properly loaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rllf2QOFivA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnL_E5bZH9k

SD ranges are seldom over 50 feet. If you're shooting at somebody at a distance more than that you better have a REAL good reason or at the minimum a dirtbag defense attorney will want to sue you on behalf of the crackhead you killed. Worse, the DA may not like you and decide to proescute. True enough buckshot will loose half
its energy in 50 yards but many deer get off'd at that distance. the buck in the vids weigh almost 80 grains each and expanded from .425 to .432", about the same as a .44 magnum when it exits the barrel.

God bless,


r D

 

[scchokedaddy]

judge

Love my judge hate snakes so does judge leave it with wife with old style buckshot was not impressed with slugs just my 2 cents worth.
Good Luck and God Bless

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

My understanding of the .410 "handgun" ammo is that it uses faster burning powder. .410 shotgun ammo uses very slow burning powder, so shooting it out of a very short barrel yields very low fps...

For a comparison, I load unique for 20ga,28ga 9mm and 45 Colt. It works fine with both short pistol barrels and 28" shotgun barrels. I load Lil' Gun in my 410 22-Hornet and wouldn't be surprised if it's a suitable powder for certain pistols as well.

 

[sasquatch76]

I own a Judge Mag., I shoot the 000 Federal Handgun and load my own 45 Colt rounds for it. They both perform excellently for me. Now Winchester is making 410 Handgun shells for the Judge. Check em' out.http://www.winchester.com/Products/shotshell-ammunition/supreme-elite/pdx1410/Pages/S410PDX1.aspx

I don't know what to think about those three "watch batteries", but it looks lethal enough. Can't wait to get my hands on some and hit the range.

 

[tommymgc]

I haven't put one through a chrono but I did some quick thinking as I read. I have a Texas defender. I have shot both the standard 3 pellet buck shot and the new federal handgun round. The old standard gives a bit of a "push" when it fires but recoil really is not significant. The federal round is a lot like catching a fastball with no glove. it is a much more violent recoil and I deduced it had a much faster burning powder and the 4th ball to cause such a different recoil. I did some calculations and the 4x73 grain balls at 1200 fps = over 980 foot pounds. can anyone say 44 mag? the major difference is the 980 foot pounds are spread in a bigger surface area via the 4 balls. The stopping power in using a shotgun is the majority of the energy is absorbed by the target even in soft tissue. The .44 mag would over penetrate and expend a small amount of energy creating a clear straight wound channel. the .357 used earlier also would not have 981 from the muzzle and would still leave the target with retained energy. The truth if you read up is handguns kill by trauma and bleeding. Most handguns do not deliver shock like rifle rounds. there are plenty of sites that you can look up and verify online. more energy absorbed by the target, massive multiple wound cavities and trauma the >410 is formidably in a pocket sized gun. I also noted that the federal round is FMJ balls. I own may calibers of handguns and long guns. If you are beating the crap out of my front door at 3 am I will probably meet you with the derringer. long guns are big bulky and give the wrong impression. I can be discreet, with one hand behind the door and still have control over anything I see when the door opens.

 

[ArmedBear]

Are there any jurisdictions in the US, where a Judge loaded with a .410 shell would be less regulated or less liable for legal trouble, than the same or a different pistol loaded with a .45 cartridge?

AFAIK the other way around. A few jurisdictions frown on shot-handguns.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I think most of these Judge threads are comparing apples to oranges.

These pellets are about the diameter and weight of a .32 auto slug, but they're leaving the barrel at about 2/3rds the speed of hot .32 - 850 fps vs 1,150 fps from a Cor-Bon .32. So, essentially you're shooting underloaded .32 specials at somebody. Granted, you may get 4 hits per trigger pull, but you're still shooting a light lead ball at low velocity.

This is NOT a good choice for defense and I don't see how anybody can argue that it is. The Judge might be a fun gun, or even a useful gun if you live in snakey country, but it's only a reasonable defensive gun if you shoot .45 Colts.

 

[ArmedBear]

I think most of these Judge threads are comparing apples to oranges.

Maybe potato soup to porcupine spines.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

Actully we are not comparing apples to oranges, that was not the intent.
The question was.... If the judge can generage self defense energy from a 4 in barrel, wouldn't the same round be more effective from an 18" barrel.

For the most part 410 has been a pratice, child, or rabbit round, but the judge now has some ammo companies building HD specific 410 rounds. If we take these rounds and put them into a sxs or mossberg 500, would they not make a great HD combo? Seriously at 20 feet in any room in my house, can you tell me that a 410 from an 18 barrel would not be as effective as a 38 spl or 9mm?

If you ask anyone about the 410 the instant answer is go with the 20g or 12g, but later people will claim that the 38+p is plenty. How is the possible?

 

[ArmedBear]

can you tell me that a 410 from an 18 barrel would not be as effective as a 38 spl or 9mm?

You won't get the same pentration or terminal performance from little balls, as from comparatively heavy bullets. To get a ball as heavy as a .38 or 9mm, you have to move up to a .44 round ball, and then you still don't get expansion.

But let's say your .410 is equal to, say, a .38 snubbie. I can put a snubbie in my pocket, and put 5 rounds on target while a pump shotgun might be good for one shot in the same circumstances. Why walk around a confined space holding a long gun when you can have more firepower in your pockets?

I shoot my 642 at 25 yards on occasion, just because. Hitting something at 20 feet should not be a problem; in a confined space I see a long gun as more of a hindrance than a help. There's an argument to be made that 12 Gauge 00 Buck loads are worth the downsides, but a .410 load?

 

[KodiakBeer]

It is apples and oranges, or apples and watermelons - pick the fruit of your choice...

Increasing the speed of a very light projectile by 1/3rd, increases the damage at the receiving end by more than 1/3rd. So, a standard .410 shooting these pellets at 1200 or 1300 fps is going to do far more damage than the same size pellets traveling at 850 fps from a handgun. That's a given, and not worth debating.

So, what handgun projectile is most comparable to what the Judge is spitting out when used with these buck loads? The closest is something like a .32, but even a .32 has much higher velocity. The best that can be said for a .32 even at the highest velocities is that it's perhaps adequate, if luck is on your side.