Anything Smaller than 9mm Luger

[Skribs]

Gel tests I've seen for .380 show unimpressive penetration unless they fail to expand. Personally, I opt for quality JHP in 9mm, bulk JHP in bigger, and FMJ in smaller.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Gel tests I've seen for .380 show unimpressive penetration unless they fail to expand. Personally, I opt for quality JHP in 9mm, bulk JHP in bigger, and FMJ in smaller.

I'm not generally impressed with hollow points until we get into .357 mag territory and don't use/load hollow points for SD in any of the guns I'd actually have available for SD. My views are in the extreme minority....the biggest panic being over penetration and going thru walls and killing neighbors. Both of which can happen.

But that's not gonna happen with a .380 or .32. I also get the impression that if one doesn't use hollow points that the "FMJ" option automatically seems to mean round nose FMJ to many people and I'm not fond of those either because they penetrate and make a teeny tiny wound channel that closes in behind the bullet. Round noses I would never use for SD in any caliber. Personally I really like flat nose lead...I'd prefer plated flat noses but I'm not finding many options for that bullet in .380 or .32.

I realize there is some "super" hollow point ammunition and I believe that is true. I also understand that 70% - 80% of folks shot survive and a significant number of those did not cease hostilities because their wounds were not of a magnitude to cripple them. This would be blamed on the use of hollow points to some degree, IMO. I'd never consider carrying HP in a .32 or .380 but as has already been stated that's a comfort thing for me and I'm the only one who has to be comforted by it.

Other should do as they feel comfortable doing. I feel strongly that with calibers smaller than 9mm (and indeed perhaps including 9mm) penetration is your best bet unless you are certain to get a straight on COM shot with minimal clothing. A shot on a moving attacker that might have to pass thru an arm and the requisite shirts sleeving (not to mention a jacket of heavy denim or leather) and then another layer of denim or leather, a shirt, skin, ribs, and tissue and still get deep enough to damage the attacker sufficiently to make him stop is not probable. IMO. Opening the bullet/expanding an HP after passing the first barrier is not what I personally would want optimally. I'd want a heavy bullet with a flat point moving fast as a wider meplat tends to make a more open wound channel and the heavier bullet loses it's momentum more slowly and penetrates further.

YMMV.

VooDoo

 

[strambo]

Any handgun round? Or the cartridges in question?
Pete

Heh,

The cartridges in question for sure and it made my point. But perhaps any, when I punch I drive all my body weight in motion through the target. I typically knock over the BOB type free-standing weighted dummy bags in 1 punch. I really rock a hanging heavy bag, so much so if my wrist wasn't held right I'd break it. Not strength based, all about the body weight.

I can't imagine even a 500 S&W Magnum moving a 70# heavy bag (if it trapped the bullet for 100% energy transfer) as much as a punch from a well trained adult male.

Injury isn't about raw energy, it is about how the energy is applied and the specific mechanism of injury involved (blunt force trauma, laceration, penetration etc.)

 

[Dr.Rob]

Another thought: less than 9mm but still good to go? .32-20

 

[improperlyaged]

My EDC is a .380, I stick with FMJ's. I feel confident in the .380

 

[Skribs]

Vodun, if it can penetrate an attacker, it can penetrate walls. I'm also not sure how you feel hollowpoints have a greater risk of overpenetration than FMJ. If they fail to expand they're equal. Through an attacker the issue will be less.

I understand the sentiment to use FMJ only. Terminal ballistics are more predictable and in some guns ammo is more reliable. While I dont think that the terminal ballistics is the only measure of effectiveness, I would not say JHP are the cause for failure-to-stop. You're talking about a diameter increase of usually around 70% and a surface area increase of about triple by going JHP instead of FMJ. I would say that provides a significant benefit.

The big reasons to go FMJ are to avoid underpenetration and reliability. I've never heard JHP demonized for being more likely to overpentrate or less like to stop a BG, unless you lose a significant amount of penetration (i.e. with small calibers at low velocities).

 

[boricua9mm]

When I can't carry a gun, I carry a Seecamp in .32ACP. I can hide it in some of the tightest slacks, and it is a better option than harsh words or relying on a pocketknife. Due to the design, the OAL of the rounds needs to be ~0.90" and that means JHPs. I carry the Hydrashocks because they have proven reliable. I don't expect them to punch through a car door; this is a contact distance weapon.



When I can carry a gun, its either a 9mm Glock or a .357 Mag pre-lock S&W, depending on if I'm in the city or in the boonies.