Apathy and No Guns Signs

[jrfoxx]

only place here in eugene I recall even seeing a "no guns" sign was at the local hospital.The signs mean nothing leagally here, and taking my money elsewhere was not an option (wife was admitted for a few days, I was visiting), so I just ignored it.I doubt very many places here have them, since I havent seen them, and likely because most business's know they carry no weight, and will have no effect, so they dont bother. If they had force of law, I'm sure they'd be everywhere, as this is an ultra-liberal, screeching moonbat haven.

 

[Hawk]

I can't recall the last time I saw a "no guns" sign locally whether compliant with state regs or not.

What I see a lot of are the "Unlicensed possession" signs which I take as "We welcome licensed carry".

Edited to add:
No wonder they're common, they're a TABC requirement. From the TABC's FAQ:

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption or establishments licensed to sell for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts are required to post a sign that warns that the unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony. The holder of a concealed handgun license may lawfully possess a concealed handgun on these premises.

 

[#shooter]

There was no “depends” selection. Of the gun shops I frequent, all of them have a no guns policy. Oh the irony….

 

[tinygnat219]

For me, it depends if the State law is behind it or not. Since the most an establishment can do to me if they find out is ask me to leave here in VA, I just carry concealed.

Where it's against the law, I completely comply.

For those that post the No Guns signs, I simply leave a card with the employee on duty that states "No Guns, No business".

 

[archigos]

I think most of New York is too ignorant to realize that concealed carry is fairly common, even here. I've never seen any "no guns" signs with the exception of some government buildings that say something more to the extent of "no weapons", and its illegal to carry in those buildings anyway.

A few of the gun shops I frequent have signs that say that "firearms must be unloaded," but I don't think they mean for that to apply to concealed carry as much as somebody in to get repairs or sell something.

 

[lenziggy]

In deep south Texas where I spend my winters you can't buy groceries without seeing a no weapons sign at the door. Also true of restaurants that serve alchalolic beverages.

 

[Broadhead]

There are very few no-gun signs here in CO, and none on businesses I frequent. If I encounter such a sign, I take my business elsewhere. My opinion is that the source of the no-gun sign has his mind made up and doesn't care what I think, so I don't waste my time attempting to educate employees or managers in the store.

 

[Omaney]

Unless the sign is in compliance with state law, I carry.

 

[chas08]

Unless it's one of the places with proper signage that Texas law prohibits concealed carry in, I ignore it and go about business as usual. Fortunately I don't have many places to deal with that doesn't welcome concealed carry. If your doing your job properly concealing, no one will be any the wiser.

 

[bogie]

Thanks, Robster...

Guys, we're talking about a little applied activism here... Notice the word - it starts with "act."

This means that you need to "act." You need to do SOMETHING.

You are assuming that the owners/managers have researched those signs, and made a conscious decision.

You are assuming. I had a drill sergeant who had a saying about that...

Now, in the St. Louis metro, when concealed carry was passed, the local county cops took some confiscated "drug money" and had a whole bunch of "legal" no guns signs printed up, and went door to door at businesses, telling them that they HAD to put them up.

Now, those of you who would do nothing would never learn that...

However, when I run into one of those signs, I talk to the manager. And I explain that it is NOT the law that they have to display the OFFENSIVE sign. And, in fact, the OFFENSIVE sign only prohibits people who can pass all the background checks from doing business there. And that criminals are not affected by the OFFENSIVE signs, and may in fact target the business or customers because of them. Then I mention that companies such as Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc., do not have the OFFENSIVE signs, and don't you think their legal departments would be on top of things?

I've succeeded in getting several removed.

If I'd done nothing, they'd still be there, reinforcing the mainstream media message of "guns are something we don't want around here."

As for the folks who lie to you about insurance - I've got several shooting friends in the insurance business. They've said that they've never seen it required that a business prohibit concealed carry. Those owners/managers simply think that they are creating a safe environment. They have not considered the alternatives. That's what you are there for. To help them.

Unless you just do nothing.

"Grass-roots" is not about signing and sending in those little postcards that the NRA sends you to fire at your congresscritters. I guess that's all fine and dandy, but you'll make a LOT more headway in the world around you by talking to people who you run into in the course of a day. Be nice, and be polite.

 

[scurtis_34471]

The signs mean nothing in Florida, so why waste my time worrying about them? The only place outside of the list of prohibited places that I do not carry is my company's property and that is not a huge issue because I work at home.

 

[bogie]

why waste my time worrying about them?

What gets me is that so many folks seem to be assuming that "we've won."

So, instead of keeping up the pressure, and remaining vigilant, the front lines have been abandoned, and everyone's back in the town looting the wine cellar...

And the enemy is poised to attack.

It is NOT a waste of time to keep up pressure. And if you can educate the store owners/managers a little while you're doing that, fun.

When those signs stay up, it reinforces the message that "guns are something we do not want around here" and that "guns are not good for safety."

Every time Sally Soccermom goes into that store, that is what she sees.

So when some ballot or petition comes around, she doesn't even have to think.

You have the power, albeit small, to help make a change in this cycle. But lots of small actions add up into a large movement.

Unless you sit back, and do nothing.

 

[Cosmoline]

Your poll needs the option "I carry wherever I am legally allowed to." The significance of signage varies from state to state.

 

[bdickens]

Robert: Maybe you need to go back and read my comment in context. I did not say that anyone who disagrees with me is a member of the Tinfoil Beanie Brigade. But when someone seems to think that you either go around yelling at the top of your lungs "they'll get my guns when they pry them out of my cold, dead hands" or you're a member of the BradyBunch, that seems just a little out of touch with reality.

You, Bogie and anyone else for that matter are free to disagree with me all you want. Wouldn't it be really boring if this was just a mutual admiration society where everyone just nodded his head and said "I agree completely?"

FYI: I am a member of the NRA, and the TSRA. And I started contacting State and Federal representatives and writing letters to the editor a number of years ago. Oh yeah, it probably doesn't mean much because its such a little thing, but I spent a little over nine years in a uniform defending the whole Constitution, not just the Second Amendment. I'm sorry if that doesn't make me a real activist, but I try my best.

Maybe before you and Bogie go ignorantly spouting off about Texas, you should visit. I can count on one hand the number of legit 30.06 signs I've seen in the Houston area. And I've written to both places.


Somehow I missed the part in the forum guidelines that said I have to be here a certain length of time before I can make a contribution. Maybe someday I can make enough brown-nosing posts to be granted that illustrious privelege. Feel free to PM me whenever I reach that magic number. I can't wait to be a real THR forum member.

 

[divemedic]

Instead of mouthing off, while accomplishing little except antagonizing and alienating business owners, I believe that the way to win is in the legislature and the courts.

Whine away. The rest of us will actually accomplish something.

 

[bogie]

Cosmoline - do you spend your money in a place that has a "no guns" sign, if you are legally allowed to do so?

 

[bogie]

Business owners talk to the legislators and the courts too. And if the legislators and the judges see "no guns" signs all over the place, they're going to assume that is what the people want.

 

[Rally_Vincent]

This, and the other thread, both belong in the ACTIVISM forum at this point.

I'm with the people who say you need to get over yourself. I've given some serious thought to withdrawing from these online gun communities specifically because of perspectives like yours, bogie.

I didn't sign up to being an activist when I decided to purchase my first firearm for self defense. As well, I didn't sign on to become some hero or some spokesman for the right to keep and bear arms.

I joined this forum back in 2003 so that I could specifically LEARN things from other people, not to be judged whether or not I'm "for 2nd Amendment or against it."

I'm lazy, I've got better things to do, and unless I know for 100% sure that that I'm not wanted because I carry a firearm (concealed means concealed), then I'm not going to fret.

Last year, I open carried into Blockbluster of Southern Pines, NC. The preening freshman college kid behind the counter started whispering to his friends, and I'm sure I overheard "does he think that's cool?" A few minutes later while browsing new releases, some girl tells me that I have to leave. So I walk up to the guy who I overheard that mess from and gave him a piece of my mind. He shrugged, said he didn't care, and it wasn't his problem. Turns out he was the manager of the store. I gave serious thought to writing Blockbluster, but guess what? In my tepid fence-sitting, tight-rope walking balance of consciously ENABLING the anti-gunners, I decided not to because I had better things to get upset over.

I'm done with you, homey. I'm done with posting my opinions just so dudes on the internet have to insist on telling me why everything that bothers them has to be in black and white. This is the third time I've come and gone from lurking because of it, and it'll probably be the last. There. I told you why I'm leaving and away I go: is that ACTIVIST ENOUGH for you? Bye.

 

[bogie]

I gave serious thought to writing Blockbluster

And I'm sure their management gave serious thought... Hey, wait a minute... Nothing happened beyond the kid micromanager getting nervous... I guess it was too much effort to do anything else...

Kid probably bragged to his friends about how he made the bad man with the gun go away. If he'd gotten a call from the -real- store manager, or corporate, and been set straight, maybe the world would have one less second-amendment bigot.

But you let one slide. I guess that's probably activist enough for you...

 

[Hawk]

I'm with Bogie.

A "no guns" sign, whether compliant with state regs or not, says "You and your money are not welcome here". Staying away doesn't cost anything and notifying the "posted" business why your money is still in your wallet (or in their competitor's pocket) only takes a minute. It seems counterproductive to march in and force financial rewards on the misguided business that posted the sign especially when it's just as easy to give the money to someone who actually wants your business.

'Course, I'd be forced to admit that that's pretty easy advice for someone in this area to take. The signs are nearly nonexistant. When they were around, it was easy to head down the road a mile or two to a "non-posted" business. If one wing joint had a sign, one went to the next one down I-20; if one jewelry store was posted, there'd be a non-posted one within a half-mile.

I didn't show up here until well after CHL was passed. There may have been a time when TSRA was handing out "No Guns = No Money" cards and the work of thousands staying out of posted businesses no doubt made things easier by the time I showed up. My meager efforts were part of a larger group that continued to stay away from advertised bigots in droves. This may or may not have anything to do with the scarcity of signs observed today.

I'm gathering that some posting to this thread live where, if you stayed out of "no guns" posted businesses, there'd be little alternative and you would go without essential services. I'm not sure what's to do in a situation like that.

It's not like anybody's suggesting that if every drugstore in a 50 mile radius is posted "no guns" you should go die on a street corner for want of insulin.

But if it's just a matter of Pizza joint 'A' having a sign and adjacent Pizza joint 'B' not having one, spending 20.00 in 'B' doesn't seem like such an inconvenience. Notifying 'A' might take a little more effort but a couple seconds for an email isn't outlandish. Who knows? If (Texas) history is any indication, 'A' will take the sign down.

 

[scurtis_34471]

1. Very few businesses in Florida post.

2. The ones that do are national chains that have repeatedly refused to budge on the issue despite the efforts of hundreds of activists.

3. There are not enough of us in any one place for these large national companies to give a crap if we don't shop at their stores.

4. The law does not recognize their signs, so they mean nothing.

5. The local employees are not necessarily anti-gun, but they are stuck with corporate policy.

6. I would rather spend my time and resources on forms of activism that work.

 

[bogie]

I would rather spend my time and resources on forms of activism that work.

Is this logic or belief?

Because one-on-one grass roots activism -does- work. Every time one of the 36% of people who refuse to fund companies who insult us lets an owner, manager or employee know that their policy is costing them money, and is not increasing their safety, that is another grain of sand on the side of "remove the signs."

Every time someone does nothing, well... Nothing happens. Oh boy! You're successful!

If Representative Smith stops for gas at a posted location, then stops for coffee at another, and buys a newspaper at another, on his way into a voting for gun control bill that he's sort of hanging in the middle of, how do you think he was just influenced?

 

[Cosmoline]

Cosmoline - do you spend your money in a place that has a "no guns" sign, if you are legally allowed to do so?

It depends. If it's some mall with a store in it I might, since it's not the store's policy but the mall's.

 

[starshooter231]

I do not enter or spend money there, and I contact management and explain why.

I also inform all the other gunners that I know about the sign and encourage them to contact the management.

 

[Yellowfin]

It depends on the type of establishment, where it is located, and my familiarity with it and the people. At very least writing a note to the management is in order, but as to where it goes other than that is something I have to determine at the time.