Apparently Carrying a "Non-Gun" In Texas WILL Get You Arrested!!

[Sam1911]

As a responsible knife owner, he should have known the laws.

Right! He was un-responsible for not knowing that detail of the law! Hang him. He deserves it!

I guess that is a good argument for letting officers search at their request. That way if you've broken the law inadvertently you can get the punishment you deserve. Sounds good to me!

 

[pohill]

I don't think hanging is one of the punishment options for that crime. And, whether he broke the law inadvertently or knowingly, he still broke the law. If you say that cops should know the laws pertaining to antique/repro revolvers, then a fisherman should know the law pertaining to knives. Maybe he should have carried a statue book in his trunk.
My point is that cops have discretion. Many times motorcyclists would ride into my state without a helmet (from a state that did not require them). I would simply point to my head and they'd get the point, pull over and don a helmet.
I don't know many, if any, cops that would have prosecuted a fisherman for the knife he had in his tackle box. Environmental Police are a different story. I was just trying to get an idea of the mindset of the local cops vs the game wardens.

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

Carl :
Interestingly enough, the Tx Leg has exempted single edged automatic knives/ switchblades via the Kniferights group, and its supporters in the Leg. Gov. Perry signed it into law and became effective Sept 1 I believe. That was the only change to prohibited
items. They still have length restrictions per state and many times
local regs.

 

[swathdiver]

LOL! He THOUGHT he had no problem with a vehicle search. Which perfectly illustrates why we tell people over and over, you DON'T, EVER, consent to a search.

Playing cooperative with "Officer Friendly" is never, EVER, in your best interest.

If an officer wants to go fishing, hand him a rod and don't give him permission to troll around your belongings or YOU will be his catch of the day!

 

[Berkley]

A Bowie knife is an "illegal knife", which is unlawful under Texas Penal Code 46.02 only if it is being carried "on or about the person".
A Bowie knife is not a "prohibited weapon" under Penal Code 46.05, which is illegal if the person intentionally or knowingly “possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells” it.
"On or about the person" has been defined by case law to mean "near by, close at hand, convenient of access, and within such distance of the party so having it as that such party could without materially changing his position get his hand on it.” Franklin v. State, 183 S.W.2d 573 (Tex. Crim. App. 1944) .
An illegal knife inside a tackle box in the bed of a truck is not on or about the person for purposes of a prosecution for "Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon" in Texas.

 

[MedWheeler]

I read the replies on pages one, two, and four, of this thread when I found it (I was steered to it by a newer, now-closed, thread on the same case.) In the first two pages, it sounds like we're hashing out the definition of a firearm per Texas law, when no actual firearms charges were listed in the original article (the charges, as I saw them, were "disorderly conduct with intent to raise alarm.") I'll reserve opinion on the actual arrests and their just cause until I've heard more about the case.
Going by page four of this thread, I would have thought, had I not read the first two, that this was a knife-arrest thread.

 

[calaverasslim]

SAM1911: Where do we stand on this case now? Is there anyway we can be updated?

 

[Berkley]

Travis County, Texas, criminal docket settings are online at http://www.co.travis.tx.us/courts/files/dockets/ . A search by defendants' names shows Terry Louis Holcomb has an announcement setting in County Court-at-Law No. 8 at 8:30 on 10/11/13; Scott Douglas Smith has a pretrial conference setting in County Court-at-Law No. 3 at the same time and date. Each is represented by a different attorney. There is no listing for a Gary Hayes.

 

[JohnKSa]

I think what some people are missing here is that it is illegal to open carry ANY loaded gun in Texas. You may carry long guns but they must be unloaded.

I once did a search of the TX penal code, and as nearly as I can determine, it does not differentiate AT ALL between loaded and unloaded firearms.

There are some regulations in the Game/Hunting laws that differentiate between loaded and unloaded guns, but those shouldn't come into play unless there's something in the context of the situation that would bring the Game/Hunting laws into the mix.

There is at least one municipality (San Antonio) that regulates the carry of long guns. I am not familiar with the specific details of that law so I can't say if it differentiates between loaded/unloaded. That ordinance, if challenged, would probably be overturned due to the state pre-emption law. But so far it still stands.

An illegal knife inside a tackle box in the bed of a truck is not on or about the person for purposes of a prosecution for "Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon" in Texas.

It would be if the person were in or within reach of the bed of the truck. It would not be if the person were in the cab of the truck.

...no actual firearms charges were listed in the original article (the charges, as I saw them, were "disorderly conduct with intent to raise alarm.")...

If it is upheld, it will set a precedent, assuming one isn't already in place. That will mean that it will effectively become illegal to openly carry blackpowder pistols--not because they are restricted but because now there's a precedent that carrying them openly is "disorderly conduct with intent to raise alarm".

One thing I've noticed is that people often do this sort of thing to push the boundaries without really considering all the possible outcomes. Often they seem to be intentionally and determinedly oblivious (i.e. continue to pretend it can't happen even when advised otherwise) to the possibilty that the outcome could be a permanent restriction that didn't exist before.

 

[deadin]

I agree with JohnKSa on this one. Looks to me like they were playing with semantics and found a possible loophole in the firearms code. Unfortunately they aren't being charged under the firearms laws.
I feel they may have hung their hat on the wrong peg....

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^ Being an idiot is a surefire way to make things worse for us all. Witness the fact that idiots in California "excercised their rights to open carry" in inappropriate places and now the predictable result is that open carry is illegal.... even in the remote Mojave desert.

Anyone who plays semantics and tries to make political statements with black powder arms is someone who is going to ruin BP shooting for us all. Drawing attention to the relative lack of law on the subject is a great way to get new laws passed. A stroke of a pen would be all it would take to have anything made as a replica considered a firearm. Remember that the federal definition is enshrined in a BATFE regulation, not a law, and that regulations can be changed VERY simply. In state law it can be changed with ease.


These people are most definately not friends of our hobby.


Willie

.

 

[BullSlinger]

Well said Willie.

 

[RandyRay41]

I second that. Well said!!!

 

[deadin]

Apparently Carrying a "Non-Gun" In Texas WILL Get You Arrested!!

I imagine so would wearing a goalie mask and carrying a chainsaw...

 

[BobTheTomato]

Ah I always love how when people start a tread about what states have the best bun laws people line up to jump up and down and scream TEXAS!!!!!!! This should be a reminder that it isn't all that great.

 

[goon]

Ah I always love how when people start a tread about what states have the best bun laws people line up to jump up and down and scream TEXAS!!!!!!! This should be a reminder that it isn't all that great.

Or at least that it is in the middle of the road at best. From what I've been reading, Vermont actually has better gun laws than Texas. Yep, Vermont... right up there in New England.

I have a friend who is a Texas native. She's fiercely pro-gun, but also points out that Texas locks up more people than any other state... too many people in her opinion (she works in the criminal justice field). In her opinion, Texas is very heavy-handed and the case with the guy who got arrested for a knife in the tackle box is a good example of that. As long as he's not swinging it at anyone or throwing it at people passing by, who cares what he's got in his tackle box? Why is that even a law?

 

[rodwha]

There's a saying here in Texas:
Show up on vacation, leave on probation.

 

[JohnKSa]

From what I've been reading, Vermont actually has better gun laws than Texas. Yep, Vermont... right up there in New England.

That's probably true, but a little misleading. Surprisingly, Vermont actually has better gun laws than all but a few states. It may be located in New England, but you can't tell from its gun laws.

 

[goon]

That's probably true, but a little misleading. Surprisingly, Vermont actually has better gun laws than all but a few states. It may be located in New England, but you can't tell from its gun laws.

From what I've read, NH and ME have pretty good gun laws too.
But it's also deceptive to just assume that since it's Texas, the gun laws must be the best imaginable.
Having said that, still a site better than a great many states.

 

[JohnKSa]

But it's also deceptive to just assume that since it's Texas, the gun laws must be the best imaginable.

True enough.

After the Civil War, a number of very restrictive handgun laws were passed to prevent freed slaves from carrying. As time passed, selective enforcement gradually became impossible, and the result was that the laws made it nearly impossible for anyone to legally carry handguns off one's own property.

It wasn't until 1995 that began to change.

 

[goon]

It wasn't until 1995 that began to change.

After the mass shooting at Luby's Cafe?
One thing I'll say for Texans... at least they're smart enough to know what doesn't work (like gun-free zones) and take steps to change it.

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

I didn't see anything in the local Austin print or TV news what happened at the two court hearings last Friday for the guys that were arrested at the Capital last month with their BP hand arms, but it looks like the Texas Open Carry supporters are at it gathering this weekend at the Alamo with several candidates for state office in attendance/speaking. They are telling folks that only longarms are acceptable for this gathering.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Sad We been down there for Civil War events and had black powder guns and full sized Bowie knives and DPS was real nice.

 

[JohnKSa]

Texas Open Carry supporters are at it gathering this weekend at the Alamo with several candidates for state office in attendance/speaking. They are telling folks that only longarms are acceptable for this gathering.

They may be in for an unpleasant surprise. San Antonio has a city ordinance that makes the open carry of longarms illegal in at least some circumstances.

I don't believe the ordinance is legal under the state pre-emption law, but it hasn't been challenged yet, as far as I know.

After the mass shooting at Luby's Cafe?

That was the catalyst.

 

[Trent]

Ironic perhaps, John, you posted that on the anniversary date of the Luby massacre.

(Was just sending a colleague a link to the wikipedia entry on it, we were debating the lack of merits of "why he probably won't carry 90% of the time" once he gets CCW license.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre