AR-15 Article: Some Won't Like It, But....

[d2wing]

I hunt in Minnesota winters as do many others. An AR is not a problem, and neither are my semi auto shotguns. None of your arguments hold water. All have been refuted by people that know better. All of your remarks are sadly misinformed and spurious at best. You like most trolls are dishonest, conceited and intellectually challenged. You just like to make noise. No one says you have to like an AR. And some may prefer something else. That is fine. I get that. Nothing else you say has any merit. But you seem to think that no one else's opinions and real facts matter. Like most know it all's. I am very experienced with many types of firearms and used both the M-16 and M-14 and others in military service. They are just different from each other. I like them both. Unlike you my opinions are based on facts and experience, Not bias. I doubt anything I or others say will stop you from showing off what kind of person you are.

 

[Old Dog]

At this point, after nine pages and I'm just now chiming in, I find that guys such as FL-NC, c-grunt, 12Bravo20 have made all my arguments already. I too have trained folks for many years on the AR platform, starting with the M16A1 through the latest incarnations of the M4. I've trained with M16s and M4 in jungles in Panama and the Philippines and relied on them during OEF and OIF deployments (while also witnessed them being used for serious purposes). Yeah, I might prefer an HK-416 if given the choice and I had to go back to some really bad places, but truly, there's nothing else out there I'd rather use. As far as the OP's article, there's always some ex-servicemember that wants attention and gets it by offering forth a "controversial" opinion on one thing or another (he got it here, is nine pages to defend a proven weapon really necessary?).

But, my main reason to post in this thread is actually to give kudos to the OP for actually sticking with his thread throughout -- too often in the forums a guy makes a drive-by post and then abandons it.

So, WrongHanded, if you're still with us, a sincere thank you for continuing to engage and keep a spirited discussion going. (Always kind of silly and sometimes meaningless when an OP does the "hit and run" original post and then is never heard from again while well-meaning members sally forth without him...)

 

[taliv]

My issue, at its core, is this: When people get online and ask "I want a rifle for SHTF, what should I get?" They're often flooded with responses saying "Get an AR!" and "The AR is the best choice!" But it's not always. Not for everyone, and not in all situations. We haven't even touch scenarios dealing with below freezing temperatures, such as a prolonged grid outage during a Minnesota winter. But I'm sure they'd be all sorts of excuses as to why the AR would be best for that situation too.

I've argued against the comments in favor of the AR that I believe are simply not accurate, or not applicable to many of those people looking to buy a rifle as part of their preparations. And I've come up against stiff resistance. Rather than considering the possibility that I might have valid points, I've been told repeatedly that I don't have enough experience to have a valid opinion on these issues, and that all my points are somehow wrong. That parts availability, and magazine change speed is very important, but that ease of operation and simplicity of design is not.

But if I lack the experience to have a valid opinion on what design features are or are not preferable on a rifle for a particular environment, then that means I should get an AR and just deal with it. Obviously I'm not going to do that, because I see shortcoming in the design where the rifle would not meet my particular needs well, and am not interested in dealing with them. I am confident I'm not alone in seeing that it is not the best option for all people in all situations.

everyone started the discussion considering that you might have valid points. Then we discussed them and quickly determined youre presenting your theoretical ideas as facts and those theories don’t match anyone else’s experience. numerous people offered their own experience which you dismiss in favor of your theories. At some point we were hoping You would start considering the possibility that You don’t have valid points.

the AR is the most ergonomic and appropriate and practical carbine for 99% of people on 99% of situations including prepping.

 

[DustyGmt]

A big part of keeping any weapon working in extreme cold is keeping the weapon in the cold and not bringing it inside a warm environment where condensation can build up then upon leaving to go out into the cold it freezes or fogs up ones optics, hunting camp growing up taught us this nugget. So having a mud room that is unconditioned would be preferable if in a prolonged scenario where the situation is of the type we are not allowed to talk about here. But even bringing a cold weapon inside if it's maintained right, with the right lubricants and the lubricants have been given time to be absorbed into the surfaces of the metals that are being reciprocated against one can get away with much of the concerns of condensation.

There are oils and lubricants that have been developed to handle extreme cold. It's name is 'Lubricant Arctic Weapon' or 'LAW', this is to be used in place of CLP.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/us-military-surplus-law-gun-oil-1-quart-new?a=2183264


Slip 2000 EWL is also rated down to -59* as stated on their website.
https://slip2000.com/pages/about-ewl-extreme-weapons-lubricant

I think the problem is there is a lack of people doing their due diligence in how to operate, maintain and use a life-preserving device to it's fullest. There are a lot of people who think just owning an AR15 is enough and fail to understand how to best put into service in different conditions the weapon. We Americans are an entitled, lazy bunch these days, we have forgot how to learn and process information, instead we want quick gratification rather than putting in the effort to fully understand things.

Our soldiers regularly train with Norway in arctic conditions, its a lubricant/software issue to remedy not a hardware issue. There have been countless videos, tests done on this subject, it is not a concern for AR15 usage in my opinion when one understands how to correctly maintain one's rifle in the situation one is found in.

I see that attitude in people as well, they believe just owning a .38 snub or a Glock or an AR15 will be the deciding factor and pay very lil attention to using it, investing in the ammo and leaving a good amount of lead in the berms developing speed, muscle memory, accuracy, etc... they think all they have to do is put up the upfront cost for the weapon and a box of ammo, tuck it away in the closet and they are good to go.

In the instance where the OP describes somebody who isn't all that interested in guns and doesn't use them or take the time to learn them, I don't know what rifle or handgun would best suit that person, I would say an AR? Maybe? If you want to win against an armed attacker in a gunfight or otherwise deadly encounter, train and practice, if you just want to wing it, pick something that looks cool and has a large magazine capacity and low recoil and pray I guess.....

Any gun you choose has a method of operation, maintenance needs, and is prone to malfunction at some point. I just wouldn't say the AR is less suited for those who aren't inclined to learn their weapon well and shoot it.....

 

[WrongHanded]

But, my main reason to post in this thread is actually to give kudos to the OP for actually sticking with his thread throughout -- too often in the forums a guy makes a drive-by post and then abandons it.

So, WrongHanded, if you're still with us, a sincere thank you for continuing to engage and keep a spirited discussion going. (Always kind of silly and sometimes meaningless when an OP does the "hit and run" original post and then is never heard from again while well-meaning members sally forth without him...)

Much appreciated.

And with that I think I'll leave it here. I appreciate the debate, and hold nothing against anyone. See you all on another thread.

 

[12Bravo20]

In the instance where the OP describes somebody who isn't all that interested in guns and doesn't use them or take the time to learn them, I don't know what rifle or handgun would best suit that person

In that case, they would be better off with a single shot rifle or single shot rifle/shotgun combo.

 

[Charlie98]

In the instance where the OP describes somebody who isn't all that interested in guns and doesn't use them or take the time to learn them, I don't know what rifle or handgun would best suit that person, I would say an AR? Maybe? If you want to win against an armed attacker in a gunfight or otherwise deadly encounter, train and practice, if you just want to wing it, pick something that looks cool and has a large magazine capacity and low recoil and pray I guess.....

I think part of the problem with the OP, and the ensuing discussion, is what is really meant by a 'prepper,' as the OP article's title states.

 

[mavracer]

So that's not a terribly valid point.

Again the Kruger Dunning effect has you totally missing the point.
Taking your dominant hand away from a firing grip to operate everything on the rifle isn't a good thing.
Also not having training isn't a good thing.

 

[DustyGmt]

Personally I'm glad this thread got started even if I misunderstood the OP on some of his points or thought some of what he said was wrong or sort of throwing shade on the AR for shortcomings not on the part of the AR itself, but rather with those who don't want to put the required effort in with their weapon, whatever that weapon may be, to become proficient with it. I don't find the AR as lacking, certainly not compared to any other firearms, in fact I find it to be pretty much ideal for the scenario he describes it as lacking in, for first time users, the unfamiliar, the lazy, etc.... it's hard not to sound like a fan boy defender in these cases but I really do think the AR is superior to others in alot of ways. OP thinks differently. That's OK though. No offense taken, hopefully none given.

 

[taliv]

A more productive way to go about it would say what could you improve about the ar15. There are literally thousands of companies that exist to make hundreds of thousands parts they think improve the ar15. Clearly there is always room for improvement.

there are several companies that make side chargers, some of which are fixed to the bolt and reciprocate and others don’t. There are products that change the bolt catch and release like the magpul BAD lever. Companies that swap the gas system for piston driven. And a million extended levers, ambi safety's etc. heck you can get it in any caliber from 22lr to 50bmg.

What I find most interesting is that the market adopts most of these products with a passion and uses the heck out of them and later decides, eh I like the original better. As a lefty, I like aftermarket stocks and handguards and barrels, and a medium extended charging handle latch. I don’t even use ambi safeties much anymore. (I mean if a gun has one I still use the right side)

 

[Ethan Verity]

Rather than considering the possibility that I might have valid points, I've been told repeatedly that I don't have enough experience to have a valid opinion on these issues, and that all my points are somehow wrong. That parts availability, and magazine change speed is very important, but that ease of operation and simplicity of design is not.

This sounds exactly like what the AK guys do to me when I point out that the AK-47 controls are less ergonomic than the AR.

 

[DustyGmt]

There are products that change the bolt catch and release like the magpul BAD lever.

I shot my AR's without a bad lever for years and could absolutely get by without it, once you get used to doing something a certain way, it's really not much of a bother to hit the bolt release with the support hand after inserting a magazine, but it's just one more thing that sort of streamlines functions and shaves a few milliseconds off returning to battery, certainly not a huge pickup for me as I don't compete but I definitely have grown fond of the bad lever. Have them on all but one AR..... for $30 everybody should try one. They make it faster to lock the bolt back and attend to any hiccups.... faster overall too.

 

[Robert]

10 pages seems like more than enough...