AR15 recommendation

[meanmrmustard]

Personally, I'd buy what you can afford. If you can get an expensive AR, go for it. If you have to go "mid" tier, that's fine too. Any rifle is better than none.

Me, for what some of them cost, Id get either one BCM, or two M&Ps!

 

[JFtheGR8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFtheGR8

You mentioned LMT: If they are within your budget why would you look at middle to lower tier anyway? My next AR will be a Daniel Defense.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

Why would I look at middle to lower tier? Well, if it is just for name brand like Mercedes vs Toyota, I am fine living with a Toyota.

Agreed, I went with Del Ton because they seemed to be the best in my budget range. Many will disagree and say I could have gotten a PSA, S&W, etc... But whatever. If you are going to trust your life with it then don't bargain shop. Get a top of the line weapon that's battle proven. Just shooting targets like me then that's not necessary. My shotgun is my go to for home defense just like you said yours is for you.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

 

[Cesiumsponge]

The salesman said Toyota and Mercedes. There are also Trabants and Fiats out there.

 

[Warp]

Can you be more specific Warp? Is it the quality or is it the accuracy?

I now have two indirect experiences with DPMS AR15s. Two. Both failed.

At my indoor range a guy was shooting Remington .223 FMJ in his DPMS. It jammed up so bad they had to beat the ever loving crap out of the gun on the bench to get the stuck case out.

Then today the guy shooting next to me at an Appleseed had a DPMS AR15. We were both shooting Federal XM855 at the time, same year's headstamp and all...and he 'warned me' about duds that failed to failure from time to time. He had just had 2 out of 5 fail to fire. He tried them again and 1 fired, 1 did not.

I took the 1 that did not, put it in my Colt, and it worked perfectly, just like every other round I have put through it (1,130 so far, only, but getting somewhere)

 

[Grizzlyone]

Another brand not mentioned is Fulton Arms. I have a Fulton lower, 18" HBAR, phantom tube.... Love the Rifle. Anyhow, just another option.

 

[ryno31]

I have to agree with everyone else's suggestions as well as the suggestion of going with a colt, noveske, bcm...etc as in the long run they have proven to be very reliable. I understand that the extra $100-200 can be a deal breaker though and in that case you really can't go wrong with a rifle along the lines of a psa, stag, or s&w unless your gonna be behind enemy lines and even in that case they would probably do the job. My first AR was a stag model 3 and it was absolutely flawless through the 1,000 rds I put through through it, I eventually upgraded to noveske lower and bcm upper more out of pride and because I had the money to afford one at the time, point being that for my needs there wasn't a thing wrong with stag. I just really wanted the extra features for a shtf scenario not because I necessarily needed them. You can also get top tier rifle significantly cheaper if you order the lower and upper seperately...don't know if anyone mentioned that in the other post. It also never hurts to send out a thread on this forum to see if anyone knows of any good deals at the moment, I did that and a fellow member sent me a link to a colt 6920 for $875 shipped.The most important thing is to have fun, happy hunting!

 

[MachIVshooter]

Oh, boy, can oh worms

My $0.02:

For a plinker/range toy, just about any of them will work fine. However, some are better than others at a given price point.

The lowest cost way to get into the AR game with a complete rifle is the S&W M&P sport. They're well made, just very basic and missing the dust cover and forward assist to cut costs. AFAIK, the sport is still available for ~$650 these days.

In the $750-$900 range, you have almost too many options to list. And again, some are better than others at the same price point. In this price range, you can get a quality, no frills AR from a reputable manufacturer. Del-Ton, DSA, Palmetto, RRA to name a few. Even Armalite has a basic offering in here. The kind of thing that may be missing in this arena is stuff like chrome lined barrels, various types of friction and corrosion resistant coatings, etc.

$900-$1,200 opens the door to some very good ARs. This is the mid-tier range today (it was top teir a few years back, before the high end stuff emerged) Armalite, Colt, BCM, CMMG, Stag, S&W and a host of others offer basic and some enhanced models to meet this budget.

$1,200-$1,800 is getting you into some of the more basic guns from higher end manufacturers like LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense. Very, very good rifles.

North of $1,800, you're really starting to pay more for factory customization. IMO, not really much quality to be gained, just more goodies.

Now, if you build your own, you can get a bit more rifle for your money in most cases, but you won't have any warranty. For instance, you can build a Del-Ton or DSA rifle identical to what you'd buy assembled for about $150-$200 less. On the other hand, trying to assemble a Colt or Armalite will actually cost you more than just buying the rifle.

I would trust my life to many rifles in the sub-$1k mark, and in fact, do: My go-to is an Armalite M15A2C, which currently retail for about $950. But there are plenty that I wouldn't count on, like Olympic Arms or DPMS.

You just need to figure out what your requirements and budget are, then we can narrow it down a bit more.

 

[Warp]

Oh, boy, can oh worms

My $0.02:

For a plinker/range toy, just about any of them will work fine. However, some are better than others at a given price point.

The lowest cost way to get into the AR game with a complete rifle is the S&W M&P sport. They're well made, just very basic and missing the dust cover and forward assist to cut costs. AFAIK, the sport is still available for ~$650 these days.

In the $750-$900 range, you have almost too many options to list. And again, some are better than others at the same price point. In this price range, you can get a quality, no frills AR from a reputable manufacturer. Del-Ton, DSA, Palmetto, RRA to name a few.

I disagree with the above list representing quality rifles from reputable manufacturers. Del-Ton is a quality rifle from reputable manufacturer? Since when?

$900-$1,200 opens the door to some very good ARs. This is the mid-tier range today (it was top teir a few years back, before the high end stuff emerged) Armalite, Colt, BCM, CMMG, Stag, S&W and a host of others offer basic and some enhanced models to meet this budget.

I disagree even more with calling Colt or BCM anything mid-tier.

I mean...are you freaking kidding me?

$1,200-$1,800 is getting you into some of the more basic guns from higher end manufacturers like LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense. Very, very good rifles.

Very good rifles indeed.




http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=680655

 

[Ala Dan]

Why is there NO Rock River Arms "Operator" listed among the 5.56 caliber
AR's~>?

 

[MrCleanOK]

The name brand "Mercedes vs Toyota" comparison is a silly oversimplification. Either your gun shop employee doesn't understand the differences, or he doesn't expect that you will. Remember that he is trying to sell a product and make a buck. Gun store employees are about the worst source for credible, unbiased information.

This thread right here from M4carbine.net is exactly why a "Mercedes and Toyota" AR15 are not the same. It's up to you to determine if the added expense of quality testing and building a rifle the "right way" are worth it to you. That decision should ultimately be based on what you want to use your rifle for, and what risk you are prepared to take

EDIT: This thread is also a treasure trove of knowledge that you may be interested in. Bear in mind, M4C.net is a website that focuses on M4-type defensive AR15's, and the bias there is toward top-quality rifles. If you are looking for something to just shoot at the range, or just hunt with, then some of the information may not be pertinent to you. Either way, a little education is never a bad thing.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Del-Ton is a quality rifle from reputable manufacturer? Since when?

Since every single one I've played with or watched being used has run flawlessly.

And Del-Ton, like many others, offers options. Maybe you can get one to hang up if you opt for the cheapest barrel and then feed it lacquered cases until it chokes on the goo, but DTI sells chromoly, chrome lined and stainless tubes for a little more money.

I disagree even more with calling Colt or BCM anything mid-tier.

I mean...are you freaking kidding me?

So you think they're on par with Noveske, LaRue, et al?

The spectrum has simply shifted. I plainly stated that those currently in the mid teir bracket were top-end rifles before the appearance of these really high end guns in more recent years. The best is only the best until something better comes along.

Me personally? I'm just fine with the rifles in this class. I consider the Colt and BCM to be very fine weapons. I'm more of an Armalite guy, though.

 

[Warp]

So you think they're on par with Noveske, LaRue, et al?

The spectrum has simply shifted. I plainly stated that those currently in the mid teir bracket were top-end rifles before the appearance of these really high end guns in more recent years. The best is only the best until something better comes along.

Me personally? I'm just fine with the rifles in this class. I consider the Colt and BCM to be very fine weapons. I'm more of an Armalite guy, though.

If Colt and BCM are what you consider mid-tier, where do you put PSA? Spikes? Bushmaster? Double Star?

 

[MachIVshooter]

If Colt and BCM are what you consider mid-tier, where do you put PSA? Spikes? Bushmaster? Double Star?

PSA: Depends on options, range from economy to mid-tier.

Spikes: Same as PSA

Bushmaster: Overpriced economy guns, below the quality of less expensive economy guns in my experience. Same for DPMS. Bushy and DPMS are about half a notch above Century and Olympic, IMO (which are also way overpriced for what they are).

Double Star: Can't say, no experience with them.

Now, generally speaking, I don't really consider built rifles from PSA, spikes, Del-Ton and the like. To me, these companies are parts suppliers, and you get some things from them, and you get other -better- things elswhere in the areas it matters more. Like I said, nothing wrong with a DTI upper if you opt for the chrome lined tube, then source a good BCG and put it on a decent lower.

I was actually quite impressed with the LPK's I got from PSA. Nothing wrong with any of the parts, and the triggers break short and clean at 6.6 lbs with a short reset. And the machining quality, fit and finish on these DSA lowers (which are only $75 before shipping and transfer) is excellent. The fit between the DSA lower and the WMD NiBX upper on my pistol is perfect, and tight enough that I can't quite pull the pin with finger nails.

 

[TCBPATRIOT]

Check out a Sig M400. I shot one last week I overall thought it to be a damned fine rifle and you can get it for somewhere in the mid 800$ range.

 

[Girodin]

I personally wouldn't get a piston AR. If I wanted a gun with a piston I would look at some other guns.

What is your price range?

Personally I would not buy a del ton. I'm sure there are many happy owners. I also would imagine most of them don't have the same uses for their rifles that I do for mine.

The mercedes toyota analogy is not a good one IMHO as it may mislead people about what the differences really are. The difference in those cars is more a level of comfort, plushness and prestige, while depending on models the Merc may also have more performance. Both are going to start and run (in fact IME the toyota has the edge there). When it comes to ARs its not a matter of one being more plush. It is a matter of reliability, durability, and accuracy. It is a matter of the odds of getting a gun that will work right and continue to do so under harsh conditions. The difference in ARs is typically found in the barrel and the bolt carrier group.

I've shot with guys that have less than reliable ARs. An unreliable gun at best in not fun and depending on use can be dangerous.

Unless you spend more than you can afford you will never regret buying the superior gun. People often regret buying inferior gear.

If you can afford it, I'd look at Noveske and the like. As others have stated Colt, DD, and BCM are all very good guns. Personally I'd lean towards a BCM, but I'd shop around and go with what offered the best value.

Below that I would get a PSA. It is better than many of the others and often not as expensive. It is on par with a spikes but less expensive and the owners don't act like children online. PSA often has sales that offer some very good values.

For a first AR I would get a 5.56.

 

[powder]

Rock River makes the AK/AR now.

SIG M400 as noted above for 5.56...

 

[checkmyswag]

For the money, I think the M&P Sport is a great deal.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The mercedes toyota analogy is not a good one IMHO as it may mislead people about what the differences really are.

How about Mercedes/GM?

Mercedes doesn't really make a low end car. They make lower of the high end to really high end. Like Noveske, et al.

GM offers everything from rebadged bottom of the barrel imports to the Corvette. Similarly, companies like Spikes, Palmetto, etc. offer the most basic rifles you can buy at super low prices, but also a whole range of upgrade options, the top end of which are really nice guns.

 

[Girodin]

I think the problem with the analogy is that it tends to mischaracterize the nature of differences between the guns.

Certainly some will say this goes too far the other way, but perhaps the difference is more akin to a Merc vs a ford pinto. The latter is not well built and might get you killed.

 

[meanmrmustard]

For the money, I think the M&P Sport is a great deal.

Agreed. Forget all the "tier" stuff when a Sport comes to play. They just straight run, and you don't feel undergunned.

As for piston ARs, I'd buy one. Carrier tilt is pretty much a non issue anymore, I don't mind a little extra weight (negligible to say the least),accuracy is par for the course, they run cooler and don't crap where they eat. I hate that about the Stoner design, filthy filthy. Only thing ill give to the purists is that parts are proprietary, for now.

 

[Girodin]

They just straight run,

Have you seen them run hard with a suppressor (genuine question)? This seems to be a task that really starts separating the wheat from chaff in the AR world.

don't crap where they eat.

One thing I've found is that if you run a piston gun suppressed there is enough blow back that they get just as dirty as a DI guns.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Have you seen them run hard with a suppressor (genuine question)? This seems to be a task that really starts separating the wheat from chaff in the AR world.



One thing I've found is that if you run a piston gun suppressed there is enough blow back that they get just as dirty as a DI guns.

To answer all your inquiries, I don't use suppressors (serious answer). So, it's a non issue for me personally. Not because I don't want to, I just don't need to.

I've seen the Sport run hard, and have done so (our ideas of "hard" may very) putting several hundred rounds through it in a day, various days here and there when time allows.. Nary a whimper, and they're accurate to boot. I like 4140 barrels myself, and the Sport runs like a top.

Piston ARs, well, I'd like one but its not in the cards for me as of late. But, I wouldn't mind one for sure. Unfortunately, I've got my eye on another Sport, a PSA, Stag or Colt. I like them all, they do their job.

 

[CMC]

I got the DPMS Sportical for $590 $640 out the door.
I could have bought the Colt for 1220 but I used the money money to buy ammo.
I read a lot about how bad they are yadayada , but I figure I found out by my own experience.
I just wanted a rifle for plinking and have fun with it, so far 300 rounds without a failure and very accurate to boot, one inch grous at 100 yards from the bench with a 3 power scope.
I got a friend who bought a LMT (308) high end for 2500 bucks but he cant afford to shoot it, he does not reload and the rifle does not work well ( dents the brass and reecoils very hard)with 308 as it is fine tuned for 7.62 which operates at lower pressure ( 50 ksi versus 62 ksi).

 

[Dave1965]

I would stay away from sportical.

 

[fanchisimo]

I would strip away the stigma that comes with brand names and look at features on each rifle cause using comparisons for car manufacturers and rifle manufacturers is like comparing apples to oranges. Once you have picked the features you want, then look at the brand offerings and reputation.

I love my PSA AR, but originally picked it because it offered a lot of mil-spec parts at a good price, not because of it's brand name. Still hoping to get one of their 6.8 uppers some day.

I owned a DPMS Sportical a few years back and it ran fine, but I didn't shoot it much or put it through it's paces as I would now.