Are ATF often 'plainclothes' at gun shows?

[Ignition Override]

Leaving today's show in Southaven MS, a very astute retired friend identified some markings or window stickers on the black truck. The show is pretty small.
Germantown TN has a show next weekend.

The only recognizable officers inside the show were local police.

If my friend is correct, it makes me wonder whether the ATF's primary goal is to spot people buying numerous semi-auto sport utility rifles at once, or seek out guns which had been reported stolen, maybe check the federal forms for retail gun sales etc.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

Always. They will try and and see if you will break the law by selling to someone you are not supposed too.

 

[ChaoSS]

Not around here. Plenty of people selling oil filter suppressors at the last one i went to.

 

[Gunnerboy]

A few years ago some ATF agents paid convicted felons to come into the gun show and have guys meet them in the parking lot to sell a gun, as soon as those guys left the building they were pounced on and arrested.... that gun show was a mess once guys saw that happen.

 

[Ignition Override]

Gunnerboy: Were the private sellers required to first ask the buyers about any previous felonies, or otherwise check on their backgrounds?

Or did the ATF have the buyers lure actual retail FFL sellers out into the parking lot in order to skip the form and checks with the NCIS? If that event happened in Minnesota, it would not really surprise me too much.

 

[Trent]

Stolen AR parts? That makes absolutely no sense. They aren't serialized. How are they supposed to tell one part from another???

 

[Ignition Override]

Trent, I have no idea, but that is all that the gun show clerk (more of less) quoted from the agent in Tulsa.

 

[frankenstein406]

I heard they would be at a local show in plain clothes but the have a dealer with class 3 stuff.

 

[Old Fuff]

They are usually at gun shows in central/south Arizona, and even have a table where they hand out literature and chat with anyone who will talk to them. It is presumed that others are walking around and looking. If they try to "pull a Bloomberg" and set dealers up I am unaware of any instances of such.

In general, most of the larger shows are packed with law enforcement officers and agents of every description, but most of them are busy looking at guns, and not making trouble. Everybody tends to get along.

 

[lobo9er]

Had a "plain clothing" guy for no reason want to "wanna sell me that shotgun" that he knew nothing about, it was an 1897 that I had just bought so had no desire to sell it at the time. He was suspect at best and it was around the time bloomberg was paying his minions to go around trying to have guys break the law at gun shows. I have no doubt it was either bloomberg "secret shopper" or ATF more likely the the first though. Nothing was right about him or the way he was acting. Not scetchy like a felon scetchy or scetchy like he was hoping I didn't know what I had, scetchy like you would imagine bloomberg guys would be.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Whether or not there are always ATF agents at gun shows, I think you can figure on there being ATF agents at gun shows from time to time. Why would anyone expect it to be otherwise? Their job is enforcing federal gun laws, so it's to be expected that one or more might be wherever gun transactions are being conducted.

 

[Captain Capsize]

I have seen an obvious ATF agent selling suppressors at an Orlando gun show several years ago. I showed interest in one then I noticed his polished shoes and military style haircut. He had several other agent looking guys behind the counter also. I presume to make the arrest when signaled.

 

[Walkalong]

That's about it. To think they never come to gun shows would be irrational.

 

[Ignition Override]

As for the original question, such observations means that they are always covert, Wearing No uniform?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Had a "plain clothing" guy for no reason want to "wanna sell me that shotgun" that he knew nothing about

Why is this suspect. Do individual sellers have to sell through FFL transfers in your state?
Here in Arkansas, you could have said, "Yep" and sold it to him with nothing more than a verbal agreement and you would be 100% in the clear. I'm not sure what you think they were trying to bust you on if FTF transactions are legal in your state.

 

[lobo9er]

I have no doubt they are there, its just shady to try to coheres someone into breaking the law that otherwise would not. Arkansas paul look up Bloomberg secret shoppers or something like that should pop right up

Gun shows are no go for private sales in NY not even in a parking lot. Also after the sale was agreed upon the secret shopper would mention e could not legally buy a gun or something to that effect sometimes only hinting to show how gun owners are stupid and or will sell to anyone

 

[Frank Ettin]

Never heard of an ATF uniform. They have raid jackets I think, but I wouldn't expect an agent to wear one to a gun show.

 

[Old Fuff]

The original question was whether they would quite often, or always be 'undercover', wearing no uniform

With the possible exception of SWAT Teams, they have no uniforms. Neither does the FBI. They do sometimes wear a light jacket with the letters, "BATF" on the back, at a crime scene for purposes of identification.

 

[Tallbald]

For what it's worth, a good friend of mine is a 24 year vet BATFE Special Agent. My wife and I see him at local gun shows. But he's a "gun guy" too. Loves shooting, hunting and nifty new products. Last year he was really tickled to get a $99 Moisen-Nagant (spelling?) and told me "Don at that price I really couldn't pass it up!!". Never wanting to be rude, we just don't ask if he's there officially or for fun. I have though told him I envy the neato stuff he gets to play with at their range and on a government nickle. Don

 

[HexHead]

Why would it matter if they are or not?

 

[tactikel]

This!! IMO you always have to conduct business as if you are dealing with a LEO at all times.

 

[kcofohio]

Someone correct me if I'm ill-informed, as I have never sold to somebody I don't know. A guy I work with is a gun collector. He said in a private gun transaction, both parties are to exchange ID info and the gun's SN. If caught not doing so, you could both lose $ & gun. I don't know if that pertained to Ohio, or in the U.S.

 

[nathan]

I think it s good if they are around to do what the law requires. They are paid employees anyways...And I never sell to anyone if they refuse to have their ID . I can smell something fishy right there....

 

[Trent]

With the possible exception of SWAT Teams, they have no uniforms. Neither does the FBI. They do sometimes wear a light jacket with the letters, "BATF" on the back, at a crime scene for purposes of identification.

Or at Knob Creek, Kentucky machinegun shoot. In addition to the unknown amount of undercover agents they send there I have seen a couple with BATF jackets in plain sight before, presumably to "fly the flag".

 

[km101]

Why is this suspect. Do individual sellers have to sell through FFL transfers in your state?
Here in Arkansas, you could have said, "Yep" and sold it to him with nothing more than a verbal agreement and you would be 100% in the clear. I'm not sure what you think they were trying to bust you on if FTF transactions are legal in your state.

The original poster noted that it was a shotgun that he had just purchased. In this case it would not be about individual sales, but dealing without a license.

One of the ploys that ATF uses is to find someone that has just purchased a firearm and offer to buy it at an inflated price. Then when the person sells the ATF agent the firearm they charge him with dealing in firearms without a license, since he just bought and then resold the firearm.

It's obvious entrapment but most people don't have the money to fight a felony charge in Federal court, so they wind up having to plead guilty. So an innocent sounding offer to buy your gun could turn into a felony charge if it's the wrong person asking.