Are "off brands" like Jiminez and Cobra SAFE?

[harmon rabb]

Poor people need guns also They have right to SD and $200 even 150 might be out of reach for them.

If you can only spend $100 on a gun, then once again, soviet surplus is the way to go. For $100, you can buy a nagant revolver. Yeah, it takes forever to load and has an awful trigger, but it holds 7 shots, will go bang every time, and you can load it with 32 h&r mag which isn't THAT weak.

Soviet surplus negates ANY reason to buy a piece of garbage like a jiminez.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Poor people don't go to gun shows or hang out on internet. They buy from some one or may be a pawn shop or a dealer. The stores know they don't have lot of money and directs them to the cheap guns. I watch a lot of people come in and buy these cheap guns some are poor. Others just want a cheap gun for the car or truck. See lots of older men buy the cheaper autos. Derringers also go well in 22 32 and up to 38.
Their a market out their . I don't think granny could pull the 30lb trigger on one of the russian type guns. And no one will tell her you can change springs and make all better. I found most people buy and expect it to work when needed . They don't want to change parts or shoot 500 round break in.
As far as using guns for self defense majority of people who do . Likely never been to range or only 1 or 2 times. Have what ever ammo dealer sold them, and sure will never go to a gunfighter school. But you know it's seems they come out on top more often than not, and do it with a lot less rounds than the trained Police use. .

Most people don't find it all that hard to point at and pull trigger on BG a few feet away.

 

[The White Tiger]

oh and the "im so poor i cant buy a decent gun" excuse confuses me. If you really have to buy a gun to save your life why would'nt you save up at least $300 for it? I can think of tons of decent firearms in the $200-$300 catagory

i would however buy Lorcin or Jennings for $25 apiece so i can turn them in at gun buybacks and make a decent wad.....to buy more guns

You nailed it - in 2000 the ATF produced a report that showed only 2% of those incarcerated bought guns at a gun show.

...98% of those incarcerated due to using a handgun committing their crime...got it by stealing one.

So, I'm thinking - criminals are probably the only ones that can afford to sell $50.00 guns on the street to 14 years olds.

Only poor people that don't have guns, are probably the law abiding ones.

How do I know, you ask?

Well, see, I used to be a poor person.

 

[The White Tiger]

Just thought I'd reign-in this discussion with a real world scenario.

As I said - awhile ago, I was wondering the same thing as the OP about the Jiminez JA-380...I heard the warnings, but I figured "really, how bad could an all-black, all-steel Pistol be?" I found one at a gunshow and for $130.00 (including 2 magazines, and a trigger lock), I bought it.

I found out, quick, just how bad it could be!

The JA-380 is a nasty, picky (only shoots FMJ) little pistol that does every type of jamb known to man - and BITES the holy heck out of you if you're not careful!

Then after a challenge by a board memeber, I looked into a Makarov. After I researched these CommBloc, military surplus thugs...I bought one.

It's smooth, it eats everything you feed it, and it's very well behaved (and my first one just happened to be a 50 year old East German/Ernst Thaelman)!!

...here's the sick part - the Makarov is a slightly hotter/but very similar load, came with 2 magazines and a holster...for only $15.00 more than the Jiminez...

...you shouldn't waist any time considering a Jiminez, not when there are so many GREAT pistols out there for about the same money - see for yourself:



(and if their are any that remain unconvinced...have I got a deal for you...)

 

[Analogkid]

For some reason I am drawn to these guns.

Right now I currently own 3 Jimenez models. These have all been purchased this year and all were made after the Nevada move. The models I have are The ja-22, the .380 and a JA-Nine. I did pull them all down when New and fluffed and buffed everyone of them... polished feed ramps and all.

The ja-22 has 865 rounds of CCI Minimags through it with a stripdown and cleaning here and there.


The .380 has about 250 rounds through it with a occasional FTF with WWB ammo

The Ja-NINE has been a very good Firearm to own. It will Eat any factory ammo put in it.

300 rounds of WWB went through it this Easter weekend with only some rem oil sprayed under the slide. It hurts to shoot it but thats ok.

Are they safe? Yes I think so. Would I carry one with a round in the Chamber?
No... but I would carry one of these in a Pinch to have some sort of Personal protection.

These guns can be made safe to use and be made reliable, all three of mine have proven that to me..

 

[harmon rabb]

Then after a challenge by a board memeber, I looked into a Makarov. After I researched these CommBloc, military surplus thugs...I bought one.

It's smooth, it eats everything you feed it, and it's very well behaved (and my first one just happened to be a 50 year old East German/Ernst Thaelman)!!

...here's the sick part - the Makarov is a slightly hotter/but very similar load, came with 2 magazines and a holster...for only $15.00 more than the Jiminez...

...you shouldn't waist any time considering a Jiminez, not when there are so many GREAT pistols out there for about the same money - see for yourself:

glad you listened cheap reliable gun spells soviet surplus.

 

[The White Tiger]

glad you listened cheap reliable gun spells soviet surplus.

Thanks for the "direction" Harmon (...but I'm still flirting with C9...not for me, for the old Marine - I can't part with my Makarov)!

 

[Blacklabel82]

I agree with Analogkid...I have the 22 and the 9 from Jimenez...both have been good. I wouldnt carry either with a round in the chamber, but they have been safe and reliable guns as far as I'm concerned.

I did do alittle polishing and cleaned them very well before ever firing them.

My wife carries the little 22 often in the summer, along with her PT140, just because it is easy to conceal and has proven trustworthy. I have carried the 9 during the colder months in a coat pocket.

 

[jrdolall]

For self defense at home there is no better weapon than a pump shotgun, period! Criminals will recognize the sound and should vacate the premises before any shooting is necessary. It can be fired from the hip without aiming and will blow through any interior doors and walls with buckshot. A used 12G pump can be had for about $100 at any pawn shop.
"My family is worth more" is a real load of crap. My family of 5 is "worth" every gun at the gun show but that doesn't mean I need every one(although I am well on my way)! Dependability and ease of use are the most important issues. I have a Ruger 9 that jams about every 3rd clip and a Hi-Point that never has jammed. A Jennings 9 that has never jammed and cost me $50 in the box with 2 mags. A .22 mag derringer that is 100% reliable and cost $75. A S&W .38+P with laser sights that cost $600. All of these pistols can be expectd to kill/maim an intruder at 15 feet which is across the LR or BR. For cc I have a Ruger sp101 .357 revolver that is small and dependable.
Buy what you can afford and make sure it is dependable. I dont' care if it is a Bryco or a Springfield, $50 or $1500, YOU need to verify that that particular firearm is dependable. It does NOT have to be accurate at 100 ft because most shootings occur at less than 20 feet. If the assailant is 100 feet away then you can usually avoid the confrontation and if he is shooting at you with an AK-47 then you are screwed with any handgun unless you are a true marksman. Buy a Hi-Point and shoot 100 rounds through it. If it fires every time then it is probably dependable.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

It can be fired from the hip without aiming

Common misconception. Your pattern at 20 feet will be about the size of a baseball. If you don't aim, you will miss.

Those who believe it will "cover a wall" have obviously never used a shotgun.

 

[billdeserthills]

I sold both of these brands for many years, I never have heard even one instance of either brand causing injuries to the person firing. The main draw-
back I see is the cheaper line of guns these two included are not to be left chambered, at least as I understand it. I know the instruction books from any of the current cheap autos will tell you to never chamber until ready to shoot & that is a problem for me. Plus I'm not big on pot-metal construction, not for anything I own. If you must have a cheap gun why not get a Kel-Tec P3AT .380acp pocket gun? it doesn't cost much more and my newer generation one worked great without any break-in at all, of course I have a couple hundred rounds thru it currently. You can put it in your pocket or carry it in a holster or belly band & hardly know it is there, it is so small & light.

 

[beatledog7]

Perspective: you can buy a $160 Jennings and have it fail. You can buy a $1500 custom 1911 and have it fail.

Odds are that of the two, the 1911 will be more reliable and certainly safer to carry. But there are no guns that can't fail. Period.

 

[Mike1234567]

What defines an "off brand"?

Hi-Point?

Kel_tec?

You decide.

 

[Jim NE]

I guess I'm changing my perspective a bit on Hi-Point. I owned one of the early versions, called a Stallard, and while it wasn't horrible, I never felt comfortable with it's "safeness". I'd heard terrible things about the Stallard's drop safety, so I had the gun destroyed. $139 down the drain, but a small price to pay.

I've heard much better reports about the Hi-Points, and Cabela's sells them, but they WON'T sell any of the other cheapo guns. Still, I'd try to see if I could afford a Kel Tec or a used cz-82 or a polish P64 (if you like small guns, they're all small) before a Hi-Point. Bud's has the used model 10 revolvers on sale for $269, and you won't find a more reliable handgun at any price, new or used. If you want the a .45 or 9mm instead, then the current general consensus seems to be that a Hi-Point would be alright.

 

[jrdolall]

Common misconception. Your pattern at 20 feet will be about the size of a baseball. If you don't aim, you will miss.

Those who believe it will "cover a wall" have obviously never used a shotgun.
I would rather shoot something that covers the area of a baseball than something that covers the area of a pencil in a tense situation with minimal training. i could suggesta an AR-15 held at the hip and fired through a door but most people don't own one. I hope I did not imply that a 12g at 20 feet would "cover a wall". I wish it would because my success rate on dove shoots would go up dramatically.

 

[Mike1234567]

...

 

[CMV]

I'll throw the Bersa Thunder .380 out there as an inexpensive, off-brand, but very very nice pistol. Mine has the alloy frame and black steel slide. It was about $200 a little over 10 yrs ago but I think they're still around there - haven't priced one lately.

All my other pistols are Kimber, Sig, Beretta, HK, SA, etc & none were under $500 new with the exception of one .22 and a Taurus I picked up for my wife so she'd leave my guns alone Anyway, I'm familiar with what makes a quality pistol.

The Bersa 380 is a quality pistol. It's gladly eaten anything I've fed it, went bang every time I've pulled the trigger, puts rounds at point of aim, doesn't jam, and has held up just fine all this time. Granted, it has many fewer rounds thru it than most others just because I prefer to shoot larger pistols at the range, but I'd guess it's round count to be around 1600 or so. If it had quality issues, they'd have shown up by now.

Other reviews I've read on it are pretty much inline with my take on it - it's a low cost but reliable firearm. It's comfortable to carry and easier to conceal than anything else I have. It's also +P rated (FWIW - still a .380).

For 10+ years old, 1600 rds, & lots of CCW hrs I'd say it's still in great shape. The plastic grips are wearing, but that's about it.