Arm teachers....NRA gone nutz?

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Obviously you've never met my kids teachers.
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That bad eh!?? :uhoh:

BTW - and again - in all deference to cops - the basic level of ''training'' may often be basic in extreme - like once or twice a year qualification. So - there is no guarantee that a cop is any ''better'' as a gun toter than a ''civvy'' CCW holder.

Let's put aside teachers then - and just let security guys be packing - that even would be better than the current unarmed security situation we seem to see. Just allow schools to be armed, in some way.
 
All I'm saying is that just because somebody has a CCW doesn't make them capable of protecting a classroom full of kids.
You want guns in the classrom then put cops in there. Until the teachers can be properly trained.
Arguing about whether teachers should or shouldn't carry firearms doesn't change a thing.
Off duty cops could be put in place within days.
 
HV - I accept your view of your kid's teachers is far from rosey - but - you seem to have little faith in your fellows.

Just cops..... who I doubt have any more ''experience'' of handling a classroom of kids than the next guy! :) We may have to agree to differ.!
 
Okay, HighVelocity, you argue. "off-duty" cops could be put into the schools "within days."

And the money for all these cops in all these schools is going to come from?

How many elementary schools are there just in the greater Dallas-Fort Worth area?

And if all of them get only one "off-duty" cop each, that's going to be how many cops?

I live in small, mostly rural Crawford County, Arkansas. There are 25 elementary, middle, and high schools and head-starts according to the Crawford County phone book. I'm willing to bet that there are more schools than police officers in Crawford County.

There are already, I guarantee, teachers at your child's school with valid, current Texas CHLs. There is, I guarantee you, at least one janitor or administrators at your kid's schools with avalid, current Texas CHL.

Those people are deemed "trained enough" and "safe enough" to walk around your kid in public at a McDonald's parking lot, on a sidewalk, or inside several buisnesses.

Why not let those people who've already paid their own money for their own training to be able to carry where they work? Especially if their presence makes all the kids safer against the threat of a mass public shooting by a disturbed whacko?

hillbilly
 
I think that just because someone's a teacher doesn't mean that they can't be taught proper gun handling. Of course it doesn't mean they can, either...
 
Off duty cops could be put in place within days.
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I don't think so. In my experience a good percentage of cops have second jobs already. Certainly cops who WANT second jobs do.

What you're talking about doing is spending a TON of money to prevent 4 or 5 incidents a year. Spread out all over the country. When there are already CCW holders in a large percentage of schools already--who are already being paid to be there.

Besides, we keep forgetting something VERY important!

THE MERE PRESENCE OF A FIREARM DETERS VIOLENT CRIME IN 9 OUT OF 10 SITUATIONS WITHOUT EVEN BEING FIRED. In fact, according to interviews with criminals, they often were deterred from particular crimes because they only SUSPECTED there was an armed person present.
 
The title alone: "Arm teachers....NRA gone nutz?" gets me going.

The NRA isn't nutz, nuts, psychotic, paranoid, whatever. There are a lot of kids packing these days in school. It the sign of the changing times. If a teacher, janitor, etc, is to have any chance at saving lives, including his/her own, that teacher, janitor, etc, should be licensed and permitted to carry on school grounds. This is allowing a victim to "equalize" with his/her assailant.

If, for example, a young student brings a gun to school and starts a deadly shooting rampage, this kid should be treated every bit as any adult and be met with equal force from the closest firearm available.

I believe locker inspections (hall lockers, gym lockers) and personal inspections (coat/jacket pockets, pants pockets, purses) should be conducted on a constant basis. Any student possesing a gun should face a 1 year suspension and start over again the following year. To help the parents/guadians take on a little more responsibility and take action .. slap them with a $1,000 fine. This should light a fire under them. Hit 'em in the pocket book.
 
Those people are deemed "trained enough" and "safe enough" to walk around your kid in public at a McDonald's parking lot, on a sidewalk, or inside several buisnesses.
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And this means they're "trained enough" to protect other people?

Hillbilly, You make a good point regarding the money. It would obviously be expensive but the school systems have spent money on less worthy ventures I'm sure.
I don't believe that it's too far a stretch to think that if the call went out tomorrow then there would be some LEO's that would "volunteer" their time until budgeting could be established or teachers received the proper training.
 
I am all for it.

I agree with the good points made by Art, Chris , hillbilly and others.

DO NOT let the Gummit be involved in any way, Fed, State, County or City...look at the mess the TSA in for example. Beauracratic Bull slows down and halts processes.

Blissninnies are flat WRONG. If a person is INTENT on doing harm here in AR for example, well look at the NO CCW laws and pick a school, a church or somesuch. The Legal CCW-ers cannot be armed in these places, so who is gonna stop them?

hillbilly is a Prefesser in a AR college. Well I am a College Student with a AR res and Non Res FL permits. I cannot CCW on campus, nor can any of my classmates or instructors that have CCW.

If I attend a function at another School, a speaker, a play, a workshop...anything, I cannot leave the function and be armed going to my vehicle afterwards on a dark campus, dark parking lot.

Folks cannot "legally" park on campus to attend a child's teacher's meeting,see a play...a Spaghetti supper at night to raise money for the Cheerleaders , Team sport, or the band.

I recall a time when we taught shooting in schools, archery too. Everyone carried a knife, the vehicles in the parking lot - students and staff - had guns in them .

We never had an incident. Not even when a student brought a firearm into the school for show and tell, or in upper levels as part of a Speech Presentation. Instructors brought guns in to share and teach ...never a problem.

I feel this way about the Airlines , other modes of transportation where CCW is denied by CCW -ers LEO, and Military.

I don't recall El-Air having a problem on a plane in quite some time either .

Blissininnies - just shut up and let the responsible folks take care of themselves. If you want to hide and call 911 , that is your choice. Don't deny the rest of us the ability to make our own choices either.
 
Dollars & Sense

The issue of carrying in schools is usually one decided in a state legislature & not on the local level. However, when a student gets shot by a 10mm coming from a teacher's gun, the local school district is going to be bankrupt and nobody is going to want to to live in that town anymore. CCW issue aside, how many of the school CCW supporters here are willing to have their taxes multiplied because of a single teacher who could be on steroids with a CCW?
And who wants their kids traumatized because a paranoid teach pulled out a piece because they felt threatened or intimidated? Deep down, we are all for CCW, but this is a business issue since school boards are often independently financially liable for what happens on the grounds, along with the town. Do you really think a state wants to be taking over any number of financially strapped school boards due to firearms accidents or incidents from lawsuits that will result from misconduct? It's a lot easier to just install metal detectors, just like they do for entering courthouses or when you want to board a plane or go to the super bowl... That's not even considering increased insurance costs if they apply. :scrutiny:
 
Because peace officers have more threat resolution training and regular psych evals that's why.
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And the wrong people are more often wounded or killed when a peace officer opens fire as opposed to when a regular person opens fire.

As to psych evals: they might get one when they get hired. That's still hit and miss in many places. And they certainly don't get them regularly (if at all) after they are hired.
 
They HAD metal detectors at Red Lake. When one went off, the unarmed security guard tending it was the first one to die. Metal detectors are only useful as a tool to alert security personel to a potential threat. If the security guards have nothing with which to respond to such a threat, the metal detectors and guards are useless. At the very least, security guards at schools should be armed and receive the necessary training to make them compotent.
 
In my perfect world, this is what I think would work - states amend CCW laws to allow local school boards, if they chose, to authorize ANY willing school employee with a CCW to carry in school. Or not authorize. Or even (because I am SUCH a huge fan of making these decisions at a local level), requiring some sort of demonstration of proficiency before authorization.

I can imagine the school board in the little town I came from agreeing to allow, say, four CCW holders in each building, subject to them presenting a properly perforated target. :D

Sure, you can poke lots of little holes in the NRA-soon-to-be-president's comments, but I think someone needed to step forward and point this out on the national stage.

Can you IMAGINE what the formal reaction for the NEA (teacher's union) will be???? :evil:
 
Do you think teacher's unions would even consider this? They seem pretty leftist from what I can recall. Right minded teachers would be elated, but from what my kids have told me about many of their teachers, they don't hold guns or gunowners in very high esteem.
 
Yet Another Aspect

Our town's high school is the largest in the state (overcrowded). We had a student "hit" on the steps 7-8 years ago in the head. There are many Police Officers and School Security now. The principal was attacked while monitoring the hallway recently, he's a former NYC police officer. Students are always raging and fighting. How would anyone stop several "kids" from confiscating a teacher's weapon and turning the tables at any opportunity just for kicks. You think gun proficiency alone would be enough? Do we really realize how easy it is for 1 individual teacher even suspected to be carrying a weapon to be "taken" when he/she least expects it? At least the cops in the school are always on the alert and watching their backs, mostly unarmed. I don't believe that any state legislature would allow a teacher to be armed in any kind of urban setting. :scrutiny:
 
As I recall, being in a higher state of awareness is part and parcel to CCW.

My high school had a officer assigned to it. His office was next to the speech teacher's room. He'd walk the halls, talk to students, etc. Very nice. However, as pointed out, having an officer in every school causes difficulties. Especially in the higher population areas.

I'm agreeing to some extent with HV though. Just CCW won't be enough control, especially for the libbies. I'd say give someone the option. The teacher shows his permit to the principal, and he decides if the teacher can carry or not. Ideally, the principal knows the teachers, and knows the ones that just aren't set up to carry in the school. A local control like this would be ideal, putting the guns in the school, and keeping them out of the hands of teachers that shouldn't be trusted with that kind of power. A stray bullet from attempting to stop a shooter is one thing, but I'm sure there's teachers out there that would be inclined to pull on a student chewing gum in class. I think that's what HV is concerned with. Passing a CCW course doesn't mean you're mentally capable of handling a gun in that situation.
 
Sorry for chiming in so late on this one.....

As the resident public high school teacher, I have to say that I would be the VERY first person to sign up for this if they ever instituted it.

Now....aside from the fact that MD has no CCW at all for us peons, let's examine why CCW for teachers isn't going to happen.

1. NEA....one of the most leftist, anti-self responsibility organizations on the face of the planet.

2. We aren't even allowed to touch kids if they are beating the living crap out of another kid. Yes, ladies and gentleman, if your freshman is getting stomped by a couple of seniors....we're supposed to just ask them to stop. (Now take heart....I'll be in there pulling them apart ;) )

3. Schools are indoctrination centers for group think....sit down, shut up, listen to us, we know what's best for you. The idea of self-protection runs counter to this as it proves that the government is not the answer to everything.

4. Liability.....think that this has already been mentioned.

IMHO....it would take a sea change of our entire way of life...practically all out war for the idea of CCW for teachers to happen. In fact, there is still controversy over the idea of school resource officers carrying their duty weapon in schools.
 
HV:

If my 9 year olds teacher was carrying a weapon I'd expect a lot more than a mere CCW permit AND I wouldn't trust somebody with my life or the life of my child based solely on having that permit.
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You trust us (CCW carriers) with your life and that of your child all the time. We're next to you in the supermarket, carrying our weapons. We're sitting in the doctor's waiting room with you, carrying our weapons. We're driving beside you, carrying our weapons. We are everywhere, except schools.
 
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