Arrested for printing?

[boo17]

http://www.firearmstactical.com/

If you scroll down you will read this:

4. Display your gun, go to jail.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times.

You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as a "man or woman with a gun." Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you're found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.

Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.

 

[CB900F]

Boo17;

Or, you can live someplace where it doesn't make any difference whether or not you show, print, carry openly, or not.

900F

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

'Concealed' means concealed.

The nice thing about CCW in San Francisco is that absolutely no one ever thinks that the bulge on your hip is firearm. It just nevers occurs to them.

 

[SMLE]

So make darn sure you know the law where ever you are. In New Mexico, there's nothing wrong with open carry, so you couldn't be charged with a crime or violation just for "printing" or unintentionally letting your gun show. Other States though, have pretty strict rules for this.
Two things every licensed CCWer should have covered:

Know the law. Where you live and where you're visiting. Packing.Org is a good place to start.

Know a good lawyer. You might even check out Pre-Paid Legal. It saved my backside on a couple of traffic tickets, may well do the same if I ever have to shoot somebody.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Frankly, I think both open and concealed carry should be the law of the land. I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment to prohibit either.

 

[Majic]

Don't believe every little thing you happen to read on the internet. If you aren't brandishing then the most that could happen to you is you lose your CCW permit and have the handgun confiscated. They can't arrest you for having the firearm because you are licensed to carry it. You would have just gone beyond the scope of the license.

 

[444]

Based on what I was told in my CCW class more than 5 years ago, this is the case here in Nevada.
Open carry is technically legal here.
Concealed carry is legal here.
But, you can not do both.
Concealed means concealed. Open means open. Partially concealed doesn't work.
If you print, or if your gun becomes exposed, or if someone bumps into your gun or whatever: you can be arrested for brandishing and/or have your CCW revoked.
This doesn't make much sense to me, but according to our instructor, it is the law.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

444

This sounds like BS to me. I wonder where in the law it defines the illegality of "partially" concealed carry, when both extremes are allowed. If it's not specifically written in the law, it's not the law.

 

[444]

As I said, I don't know, but in the class they made a pretty big deal out of it. I remember one specific example they used was you being in a store and reaching up on a high shelf to get something. Your shirt rides up and your gun is exposed. If someone calls that in, you can have your CCW revoked.
Personally, I don't see this as being a big issue. Just don't do it. I have carried for years and seldom have to worry about being in a situation where this would become a factor. Although there are some such as bending over to tie your shoe. This is pretty easily countered by doing it somewhere that your gun would not be noticed such as putting your gun side next to a wall. A bigger problem is dropping something and having to bend over to pick it up. Instead of bending over, I squat down, again trying to keep my gun side away from people. Then there is the big problem of getting out of the car and having your shirt caught up on your gun. So, I make it a habit to always reach around and make sure my shirt is covering my gun. Obviously one big thing that can greatly reduce or eliminate the whole problem is to have a real long shirt or cover garment.

I briefly looked at packing.org for information on this subject. It said that open carry is not addressed in Nevada law. I have seen people carry openly, but it is not common (at least where I live) although not unheard of. Personally, I think you are asking for trouble by doing it in a city such as Las Vegas. I didn't see anything about printing, but then, I didn't look very hard.

 

[Black Snowman]

Also keep in mind if you look and act responsable even if someone sees it they'll most likely assume it's OK and not report it. They'll figure you are a detective or off-duty officer of some sort. Now if you look like a thug then you might have a problem.

 

[Steve in PA]

No such laws against printing or having your shirt/jacket, etc hang up on your weapon in PA.

 

[tyme]

444, that sounds like BS to me as well.

There is no crime involving a transition from concealed to open carry, is there (note that if open carry is legal, the transition can hardly be "brandishing")? If it's legal to carry openly and it's legal to carry concealed with a ccw, if you have a ccw you can do either. Either situation (either it's concealed or it's not) is legal.

 

[XLMiguel]

Yup, pretty much a local issue - know your state's laws and bhave accordingly.
VA is a good example of a bad example, i.e. our 'restraunt' law. You can't CCW in any establishment that serves alcohol for on-premise consumption, but you can carry openly in said establishment. The common practice is to uncover just before you enter the joint.

Usually no big deal, but occasionally some namby-pamby bed-wetting bliss-ninney hopolophobe what get's their panties in a twist and calls the constabulary or complains to the restaraunt management. It's a great opportunity to behave like the mature, responsible adult that you are. Worst that's likely to happen is that you may be asked to leave, but it's pretty rare, as most restataunts don't want to lose the business, even in occupied Northern VA.

There was an incident this summer where a couple guys were open carrying in a Starbuck's and got their guns confiscated when someone complained, but VCDL (God bless 'em) raised holy hell, so the next day they got their handguns back with an apology and the Fairfax County police got 'educated' on VA gun laws

 

[sendec]

The risk of conviction for the "crime" of brandishing or menacing is relatively low if the unintentional display of a concealed firearms was inadvertant, unintentional, and not due to negligence or recklessness on the part of the carrier. It would be difficult at beat to prove culpability. Such laws are primarily aimed at those knuckleheads who sweep their cover garments in bars and the like to intimidate the dudes and impress the babes.

If you arent being a twit you should'nt have any problems. LEOs know that occasionally accidents happen, cause they have happened to us. Not a few agencies have strict regs about keeping guns concealed when off duty or in soft clothes.

 

[Majic]

I would look long and hard at the CCW instructor who says printing = brandishing. Brandishing is openly displaying the gun in a threatening fashion. Printing is just being able to see the outline under your cover garment. It is still concealed as the handgun itself is not seen. It has to be plainly seen, not just imagined because an outline can be seen. Neither can anyone just brush up against you and discover your firearm complain of anything. It is still concealed, which means hidden from view.
Printing may be a poor decision you made in performing a certain bodily motion, but there is nothing illegal about it. After all just about anything can be clip to yur belt under your shirt and shows if you bend or twist a certain way. Who can say for certainly what it is if they can't see it. Remember for it to hold up in court you have to be able to describe it.

 

[SapperLeader]

444 - I realize your just reporting what your instructors told you, but I have to call thier facts BS too. Heres my reasoning which probally only applies to my locale, not yours.

In Va, I have a concealed weapon permit which allows me to carry concealed, and we have no laws forbidding open carry which makes it legal to carry open. Now in restuarants that serve alcohol, we cannot carry concealed but can carry open. Now if I walk into the restuarant and then remove my cover garment to transitition to open carry that would be illegal. If I remove my cover garment outside the restaurant, and then walk into the restuarant I am legit. According to those instructors though, SInce I started off carrying concealed, I couldnt make the shift to open carry outside the restuarant, as my weapon had been concealed. This "partially concealed" law that they wont be able to show us in the laws is probally on the same page as the three finger length law that every person in the world thinks applies to knives. Now probally this whole partially concealed thing is a moot point, as most of us do make sure we dont print or have our garment ride up, but it sure is fun to debate how it would work.

 

[Zach S]

Also keep in mind if you look and act responsable even if someone sees it they'll most likely assume it's OK and not report it. They'll figure you are a detective or off-duty officer of some sort. Now if you look like a thug then you might have a problem.

Hasn't been a problem yet, although I havent been made, AFAIK.

 

[Bruce H]

Never take a law at it's face value. Always read the fine print that is inserted by well meaning minions that have an agenda. This kind of thing happens everyday. Take heed of the stories of representives and senators saying they never vorted for what became law.

 

[Valkman]

In Vegas CCW classes they give alot of examples of things that COULD result in losing your CCW, but it doesn't mean you will. They always give you a "worst case senario" type of thing. Road rage, tickets, any of it can cost you you're license but it's hard to believe an honest mistake like a shirt hanging up on the gun would do it. I think they say that for the people who might accidently-on-purpose show it to someone.

 

[George S.]

The Firearms Tactical website looks like it originates in Port Orchard, WA so I went out to look at the specific WA law regarding concealed carry: RCW 9.41.050 http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?section=9.41.050&fuseaction=section

After reading it, I don't see anything in that section that specifically says you can or will be arrested for "displaying" your gun if you have it concealed and have a valid CCW permit on your person at the time. To me, concelaed means out of plain view and not visible. Sure, shirts will ride up, a coat may blow open or get caught in a door or something like that, but if you are making a concerted effort to conceal a weapon from view and something happens, IMHO it's a mistake and not a crime. Sort of like Janet Jackson and her "wardrobe malfunction"

Some people may be concerned or even frightened if they see a person with a weapon underneath their clothing and may call the police to report them. That may result in being contacted by police officers to ask if a person is in fact carrying and if they have a valid permit. Personally I have no problem with that as simply tells me that I need to do a better job in concealing.

So if the permit is valid and you simply say to the officer that you didn't think the gun was visible or even printing and offer to correct any problem, all should be fine.

 

[Dave R]

Just confirming that carry laws ARE a local issue. For example, in Idaho, open carry is legal. But in Boise, open carry is not. So you 'probably' could not be arrested for printing in Idaho, except in Boise or maybe some other city limits.

 

[Ivy Mike]

The excerpt from firearmstactical.com isn't written very well. First it mentions that people might react strangely upon discovering your concealed firearm. They don't say this will or will not land you in jail.

Further down the author mentions actually brandishing your firearm (which you shouldn't do unless you are ready to shoot) and the consequences of this action. THIS could land you in jail and if you are unjustified, in prison. I would expect to be held in a jail cell for a little while if I shot someone. I would also keep quiet until my lawyer arrived.

Know the laws, know your rights, keep your gun hidden and your mouth shut.