At athe range for CCW instructor got on me for having hardball ammo for self defense

[OF]

I carry FMJ because it works.

What if there was better performing ammo available that was as reliable? Why not switch? (assuming it worked and was tested and reliable all that).

I'm not trying to bust on anyone for what they carry, I'm happy enough that people are carrying guns! Just making conversation...

- Gabe

 

[mpthole]

marvl beat me to it! When it comes to guns and how they function and perform, I'll take Clint's word for it.

 

[Mute]

Sounds like your instructor what somewhat out of line. Having said that, all things being equal, I'll take the HP.

 

[buzz_knox]

Millions of people; literally millions of people have died from being shot with non-expanding ammunition. Many of them were shot only once.

Yup. So based on that, we should all carry 9mm FMJ. I mean, 9mm FMJ has seen far more use than .45 FMJ.

Carry what you like. Doesn't matter to me.

 

[Wanderer]

You should've pointed out to your instructor that a well placed .22 was able to kill, so why not a well placed .45?

 

[cslinger]

Well that settles it.....

I am going to carry .22 from now on since that lousy .45 is so ineffective.

:banghead:

 

[Mikul]

What I don't like about hardball is the chance that it will overpenetrate. First, it isn't doing as much damage to the intended target as I would like, and second, it's moving on to do damage to an unintended target. Bad juju.

The profile of most JHPs is similar to the popular SWCs used in a LOT of 1911's. I'm sure there are several brands that will work reliably. Then there's POW'r'Ball and Federal EFMJ, neither of which are classic hollow points.

 

[Wanderer]

I am going to carry .22 from now on since that lousy .45 is so ineffective.

Better get that in a Jennings, or Lorcin since the 1911 is so unproven.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Hardball beats flipping the bird, cursing like a sailor and giving the evil eye anyday.

 

[spacemanspiff]

my CCW class instructor actually advised everyone to use hardball. he sounded like he was sick of all those new-fangled ammo types, jhp, frangible, etc.

right now i carry only hardball in my kimber. but i'm interested in finding out if corbon+p will feed reliably in my 1911. i like the stats shown on :
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

 

[buzz_knox]

My recommendation is to forget the one shot stop crap and focus on what works in your pistol, is accurate, and has sufficient penetration/energy/expansion to do the job. Tacticalforums.com has some good information, as well as some good reasons for not thinking about one shot stops.

 

[DorGunR]

I always thought ya was supposed to keep firing until the threat is neutralized.........at least thats what I've done.....uhhh...gonna do.

 

[buzz_knox]

Nah. I'm just going to keep their head down so they can't shoot me in the back while I break the record for the fastest quarter mile.

 

[DorGunR]

Good point buzz_knox
Besides....it would be hard for them to chase me due to all that slippery stuff I'm leaving behind.

 

[buzz_knox]

I used to practice like I expected to fight. But the range got fed up with the complaints when I'd scream "Oh, sh_t!" then soil myself before drawing my weapon.

 

[DorGunR]

buzz_knox
I wish you hadn't posted that.......I have a visual image of that in my mind..........and it ain't purty.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Yup. So based on that, we should all carry 9mm FMJ. I mean, 9mm FMJ has seen far more use than .45 FMJ.

Yes Buzz, that's what I was trying to say. Everybody in the world should carry 9mm FMJ based on what I said.

 

[Double Maduro]

LOL @ Answerguy, My feelings exactly.

 

[GSMD Fan]

Hot Brass,
IMHO when the instructor says something just nod. It is his world, he is teaching so he becomes the annoited expert. You are paying him for the instruction. Some instructors relish a give and take with their students, some don't. Sometimes finding out could cause issues. This issue is not worth fighting over.

Besides, my CHL instructor showed us the value of a Keltec 32 as a carry gun. "Look how small this is, right in the back pocket, what a great carry gun"

I chose not to enter into the obvious debate. I was using my SIG220 for the class and he thought me a little over zealous.

So I agree the instructor should ****, but as he didn't and you did, you were the wiser man.

Carry what you want, your call.

 

[XLMiguel]

It's your 1*, carry what you believe in and put it where it counts. Stay safe.

 

[brownie0486]

After carrying 45acp guns for 33 years, I have gone over to 230 grain hardball from all the latest and greatest HP's that ever hit the market for that caliber.

I've seen HP clog up and go HB into the targets, seen em collapse into themselves and go HB like performance as well.

HP are more finicky than HB as a rule. The gun may run fine on the HP's for years, then have a balk. Seen it at the range too often to count, even some of my own carry weapons have this occur.

HB has fewer issues with reliability, but can be overpenetrative at times.

There are trade offs in everything, I have come to the conclusion, for me, HB will be the order of the day.

I'm not in any way undergunned by using HB. I actually like 230 rnl, self loaded as the preferred load. Hard targets like car doors are defeated pretty well with that config, the lead will flatten and create a good size wound channel as well.

I know, I know, hand rolled for defense? Yes, I have carried them and the extra mag carries them for sure. A quick mag change and I have anti-vehicle loads to punch through to the interior.

Use what you got if it works reliably in the gun. I have no aversion to HP's and still use them sometimes. I no longer worry about ball ammo being a deficiency of any kind on the streets for me however.

Brownie

 

[Futo Inu]

They ALL fall to hardball!

Doncha know? All cute mantras are always true, right? Actually, when I carry a .45, I keep a JHP in the pipe, follow by a whole mag of hardball 230s, for maximum feed reliability chances. I'd rather empty a whole mag of those "ineffective" rounds than just a couple of JHPs in the event of an FTF.

 

[teppo-shu]

Hot brass, I'll paraphrase something I read on TFL one time, which you can quote to deflect any criticism from nimrods like your instructor:

A 9mm HP "MAY" expand, but a 45 FMJ will never get any smaller!!

 

[Sven]

I asked Chuck Taylor, he said: "I had five one stop shots with hardball .45 - once I shot the guy twice, but later we learned my first shot had put him out"

He said that that one was through glass in a car with a guy driving.

 

[Covey Rise]

umh, heh, umh

If you live near me please switch to HP cause if you shoot some bad guy and I'm standing behind him and your bullet hits me, I'm a gonna shoot you, nah, heh, I use HP for the fact that I dont want to kill ol nice Jack standing in the back. TO me a HP is like preflushing in a public toilet. LOL!