Attended CCW class yesterday

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Shorts

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It was taught by two retired Sherrif/SWAT guy/Sniper/Ret.Mil/etc etc guys. My husband and I attended. The morning half of the class we went over gun safety, state laws and CCW Do's and Donts, scenarios, what to dos, gun and holster types. During the "you just had a confrontation and shot the guy" scenario, I was the person attacked and the instructor was the LEO. I had just shot and killed the assailant in a gun fight and the LEO was grilling me, askng questions and so on. It was VERY intimidating and if you've ever watched COPS, it easier to see why people turn into morons when dealing with cops :D It's easy to get flustered and nervous while the cop is just playing 20 questions. Everyone is staring at you, no one can help you answer, and if they do, it could be a trap :uhoh: Anyway, I knew that I didn't want to answer questions and I wanted to wait for my lawyer before I gave a police statement, but I wasn't sure how to tell the LEO. After my husband looked at me and mouthed "just tell him", I answered a few of his general questions.... :banghead: I was dead in the water now. Once the cop gets you to talking, about anything "where'd you buy those shoes?", you're done. So, after frogging my husband for the bad advice (thanks Mr squadron legal officer), I asked what was the best way to say "I want to talk to my attorney before I talk to you?" without backing yourself in the corner. The instructor said the best thing to do is say "I'm really shaken up right now I just need some time to calm down, talk thing over with my attorney and then he and I will sit down with you and we can talk together". He said once the cop hears the "L" word (lawyer), they're done with you. They don't ask anymore questions and they'll leave you alone...if you watch close enough, you can see them run screaming from you ;)

Onward....we broke for lunch and the always fun exchange of war stories.

After lunch part we went through some dry fire scenarios that were timed. Our instructor was generous and gave us 4secs. He said normally he gives the LEOs he trains 2secs. So you had to draw your weapon, sight, fire twice and move. We also drew and fired while fending off an attacker. Then did some seated draws, as if you were in a car or office. After doing that stuff inside, we moved outside to the range.

Out in live fire, we drew and had to fire alternating on two targets, in 6sec. Then we did the drill again doing 4 sec. The next fire drill was 2 shots COM and finishing head shot. That was timed, but we had to do it as quickly as possible yet still controlled. The final drill was fending the attacker and shooting a gut shot. That was the most dangerous one as you had to be really careful not to shoot your hand.

Everytime you had to shoot, the weapon had to be pulled from your holster. So everything was practical. Sometimes he'd do surprise drill starts when the other instructor was talking to us (inside doing dry fire drills) to catch us offguard.

Anyway, the instructor made sure that he addressed everyone's specific carry method and gun carried so that we could do each drill effectively. I was really impressed and glad that he worked with my situation and gave me great techniques and moves to practice. He didn't just shirk me off because 1)I'm a lady and 2)my disability poses a challenge to think out of the box.

I recommend everyone take a concealed carry class. All in all, it was fun and I learned a lot. While you *think* you are comfortable with rules and scenarios, it really doesn't make them "real" until you get out with people you don't know and you're put under stress to try to perform. It's a great way to challenge your abilities and to measure where you are at so that you can see what your strengths and weakenesses are. Some people had problems with their gun: no round in the chamber, safety on. Some people had problems with the holster placement: hard to get gun out from under jacket, holster kept coming off the waistband with the gun. So, lots of feedback.
 
Great course ! I wish that was mandatory for all CCWs. All to often CCWs have no clue about the fact that they could get killed , injured, arrested, sued or all of the above.
 
All to often CCWs have no clue about the fact that they could get killed , injured, arrested, sued or all of the above.

Exactly. If things go down and you do make it through criminal court, you still have to deal with civil court. It was good to know how to set yourself up for later on down the line. Dealing with the aftermath isn't like in the movies where you just hop on your horse and ride away.
 
AZ's CCW class has a section on the physical/psychological/legal aftermath of a shooting, including a film by Massad Ayoob. Very enlightening. Also very sobering.
 
Shorts ~

Good review.

Where'd you take the class from?

pax
 
And in pennsylvania a clerk in the sheriff's office asks if you are a felon, spouse abuser or insane. Answer No three times and you now have a carry permit.
Mike - yeah it is nearly that simple. The question however as to ''whether a felon'' - that is taken care of by a std background check - so no loophole there. Other questions are on the application form.

Despite a person's right to own a firearm I have certainly been a tad leary of some folks getting CCW quite this easy - if they have never previously owned a gun and not carried - it is a big step to suddenly be out there, with a CCW and maybe little or no familiarity with the gun, laws, awareness etc.

Thus some degree of training is I think even if not mandated, a wise move. The Basic Pistol courses I coach on are a minimum necessary IMO. This is not to cut across a basic right - simply to make for greater safety for the carrier and those around.


Shorts - good write-up. :)

.
 
Mike ~

There's no training requirement in WA state either.

I think anyone who gets a CCW permit is a dang fool if they don't get substantial training.

I also think that laws mandating training are a stupid, bad idea.

pax
 
Don't get me wrong, I was trying for sarcasm.

I also believe it is too easy in Pa. I also think a certain competence in safely handling a weapon should be demonstrated, including a reasonable ability to actually hit a target. Mostly I don't want to be shot by an untrained idiot with a gun.

"Shall issue" upon demonstrated ability is reasonable to me.
 
When I took my mandatory CCW class in AZ, I was amazed to see the complete lack of understanding of deadly force principles on the part of most of the other students. Especially the older folks. Their mindset was to shoot someone taking their car stero out in their driveway..no questions asked, no confrontation, just shoot 'em. I thought that was a positive aspect of the training, and even though I already knew that it was still good to cover again.

I understand the libertarian outlook of not needing a license to exercise a right, but unless we were to find a venue to ensure that the general population understood application of deadly force principles I think the mandatory training serves the greater good. Teaching it to everybody in middle school, like sex ed, would be my preference. The AZ marksmanship HS class now provided by state law is a great start...I hope it catches on everywhere.
 
Pax, I took the class at Central Whidbey Sportsman's Assc, which is about 10 miles south of here in Coupeville. The instructors are local ret. LEOs so they offered great info in respect to local law community and "attitudes" (outlook maybe?) so to speak. They had flyers and advertisement up all over the area promoting the class. We ran into a flyer at Ace Hardware gun section where we went to window shop one afternoon. I've been wanting to take a ccw class for a while and we jumped on this opportunity as soon as we copied the phone number on the flyer.

That's correct about WA, shall issue and no class mandatory. Texas on the other hand required the class, and..., and..., and... ;) It would be nice if regular edu classes were incorporated with a license application. That way you know when and where and even IF these classes are available.
 
I think I got jipped!
I was really looking forward to the "hands on" part of my class, only to find out that there wasn't any :(
 
That was a great post.Although US peons in the "Socialist state of confusion" --(Maryland) aren't allowed to CCW,it really made me think about what could happen in certain situations not to mention the aftermath should one choose the "wrong" words while being questioned.

Apparently the powers that be in this state feel law abiding citizens aren't worth anything so they shouldn't be allowed to protect their life or those of their family. Perhaps one day it will happen! As it stands now the state police dictate who can CCW. I would bet that most CCW permit holders here are retired police, judges, politicians and "maybe" a couple of token commoners thrown in for good measure!

If WE ever get a CCW passed here for the general public I hope that a CCW class is made mandatory along with good instructors .
 
Sounds like a great class. I wish they had one like that around here. The range time alone is worth it.
 
The deadly force portion of my first CHL class was taught by an LEO. He repeated his advice not to talk after a shooting 20 times or more during the class. My wife recently took a renewal that he taught and this time he not only gave the same advice but had horror stories from people who failed to follow similar advice.
 
yup. The reason being, for folks unaware, is that it is harder to undo during the trial what the cop had written down to the scene. Basically, things you said at the scene can be taken out of context, then used against you during court.

Also, if you were ever asked, "Why did you shoot him", the answer is not "I wanted to kill him". The correct answer is "I wanted him to stop".
 
My husband and I went to CCW practice sessions. They were held once a month from Oct to April. You went in "hot" with the gun, holster and clothes you wear on the street. It was quite eyeopening for most new CCW citizens. Many of the men (I was the only women) changed their carry guns and holsters, my husband included. Some had trouble with gun jams, holstering and reholstering their gun.

We went through various senarios including hostage situations, restaurant and street situations. Had to practice not sweeping the innocent citizens. I never hit a hostage. :)

Sessions such as these as a must if you decide to carry and want to become proficient with not only your carry gun, but the way you carry it. Just going to the range and putting bullets through a target really doesn't prepare you for a confrontation with a bad guy.
 
Very good post and description of your class. The 'I just shot someone' scenerio I especially like and wish it had been a part of my own class. Nothing really prepares you for the emotional trauma of course, but knowing what to say or not to say would be a big help. Sounds like you had an excellent instructor.
 
Thanks Shorts,

Even though I didn't attend the class I learned a thing or two from it. :D

My CCW instructor's advice was to empty your gun into the BG and then when asked why just "Say you panicked"

I have since taken up an occasional ConTact match very well run by local THR member juggler which has improved my understanding of the hands on concepts immensely.
 
And in pennsylvania a clerk in the sheriff's office asks if you are a felon, spouse abuser or insane. Answer No three times and you now have a carry permit.
And the Constitution of the United States says I have a right to keep and bear arms, so even this is more hoops than I should have to jump through. While I agree that training is beneficial and well advised, and the class Shorts took sounds like a very good class -- legally, no class should be required, and no permit should be required.
 
Shorts,

Sounds like an excelent class. Was it a part of the process one goes through to get a CCL or did you take this course as a personal option to be better prepaired? If a class this comprehensive is part of the of the normal process (though from the other posts it doesn't sound like it), it is far more thorough than what is required in Texas. Fortunately similar training is available, if one has the forethought to pursue it (most don't).

If I'm not prying, what disablilty do you have and what was done as accomodation? (Was it practical?)
 
This class was voluntary and we did take it to be better prepared. My husband already went through the Texas CHL stuff a couple years ago when we were dating. But I never got around to it. Now here in WA, we both have CCPs. Since I had never been through a class, it was something I wanted to attend. The instructors set a class date and time, then advertise, then go through if there are enough people signed up. They also do Home Defense classes and other training (mainly LEOs).

And no, you're not prying one bit :) Back in '98 I broke my neck and various other body parts in a serious truck rollover accident. So initially paralyzed on the whole left side of my body. After recovery and whatnot, I got everything back (with some quirks) except for the use of my left arm. I have some movement and weak strength in my shoulder and elbow, but nothing in the wrist except for ROM supination/pronation. And of course, no use of my hand whatsoever.

So basically I'm a one-armed bandit :eek: And I must figure out new ways to do old things. Throw another wrench in the gear, I carry crossdraw. So, my gun is on my weak side, which isn't all bad. When I do things now, my strongside is always forward in my boxer stance. This aids in keeping my gun and holster away from the threat.
 
Thanks for the info. I took a pistol class for extra training (didn't go as far into legalityies as yours) and really appreciate the awareness of things that would not have occurred to me otherwise.

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulty, but am glad to hear, that though things may not be what you would have liked, you have been able to adjust.

BTW, when do y'all get to come back to Texas?
 
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